From No to Yes: Cold Calling Without Fear

3:03Franjo: I think that before people even start with cold calls, they have to picture one thing. Cold calling is like a hunt. You have to prepare for the hunt. You have to know what you're hunting and how you have to hunt it. And in the end you're then an active person in the sales process. That means you're not passive, you're active. You really take action into your own hands and show: yes, I'm ready to do something new. I'm ready to call someone and convince someone that my product can help them make something better in their life.

3:43Dominka: Do you think you really need that kind of hunter's instinct to do cold calling? Or can you be more of a pacifist and try to do it in a different way? Maybe our vegan listeners are now saying to themselves: okay, I'm not picking up that shotgun.

3:59Franjo: No, the concept is what matters here. The concept is primarily: you have to be active to be able to do cold calling. But if someone is a pacifist and wants to pull it off in a calm way, that's of course possible too. Many people are more convinced by people who are calmer, and some people like it more when a person is more active and shows: yes, he knows what he's talking about, he's a real expert. So I think that for every person, whether a bit calmer or more active, this kind of active approach to prospecting would be good.

4:40Dominka: Can we maybe compare it to fishing instead? No? You can throw a fish back, after all.

4:46Franjo: You can throw a fish back, but I'd rather compare fishing to LinkedIn prospecting or email. There you cast the net into the sea, so to speak, and then wait until someone takes something.

5:05Dominka: That's a really good comparison. We stay hunters.

Franjo: Exactly, we stay hunters.

Dominka: Okay, good. We don't necessarily have to shoot everyone, but missing is fine too.

5:16Franjo: Yes, that's true. In the end you can also get feedback from that. Either I need to aim better to get a result. Or I see that I'm in a completely wrong industry, or, to put it better, in this metaphor, in a completely wrong forest. And then I have to change forests or adapt somehow so that it can work.

5:39Dominka: From the metaphor you just gave us, you can already hear that you really love doing your job, not just doing it well. Why? Do you just have to feel it, or was there a moment when you thought: I don't want to do this at all, but I'm doing it anyway?

6:01Franjo: Actually, two and a half years ago, when I started here, I was incredibly against cold calls. Really against cold calls, because I'd worked in a call center, and I'd had such bad experiences there that I thought: nope, I'll never pick up the phone again. I don't want to do that anymore. And then I got the message from you: would you maybe like to work at OB2B? And I told myself: okay, why not? I'll give it a try.

6:28Dominka: What convinced you? My LinkedIn photo?

Franjo: I was looking for a job at that moment.

6:34Dominka: Okay, fine. Bad answer, but that's okay.

6:43Franjo: And then I thought: okay, give it a try. And what convinced me were many, many incredibly pleasant and lovely conversations I had with the front desks and also with the decision-makers. After conversations like that you simply feel good and know: okay, I did something nice. I gave the person knowledge. The person now knows: okay, I have an opportunity to improve the company I work in. Or I talked to the lady at the front desk about, let's say, everyday things, and a call like that among hundreds of calls simply brings the person a sense of peace. I can simply take that with me, and that's exactly why I like this job.

7:40Franjo: There are many calls that are pretty bad, after which I'm not only frustrated, but we can talk about that later. But the few calls after which I feel really good and know: okay, I brightened someone's day, or I set up a good meeting and know that it can lead to a potential deal, then I know I did a good job, and that everything I do here makes sense.

8:09Dominka: I'm definitely glad to hear that, because that's of course the attitude I think you should have and should go into the whole thing with. If that fades at some point, that's another matter. But I think you can compare it very well to how you started this whole podcast: with the hunt. If you're a real hunter, it never stops being exciting, right?

Franjo: Exactly, that's true.

8:38Dominka: We have a few topics that we definitely want to cover today. First, we'd like to talk a bit about myths and reality. Second, about psychological barriers you should overcome in cold calling. After that a bit about a success strategy, and I'm sure you can teach us quite a lot about that. And about technology and tools in cold calling. There might be something there that could interest one person or another as well. Maybe we'll cover everything. If not, we'll take another episode and talk about all these topics again.

Franjo: Gladly.

9:13Dominka: Something that personally really annoys me, and where almost every time I read it on LinkedIn or hear it somewhere I want to pull out the shotgun right away and shoot, is when I hear: cold calling is dead. That's a total provocation for me. How do you feel about that?

9:36Franjo: Yes, I completely agree with you there. People forget one thing. You buy from a person you trust. So how do you best build trust? By talking to the person. And the best way to do that effectively and quickly is simply cold calling. Sure, it's hard like a hunt, but in the end it's how you can achieve the best result, if you have, let's say, the mental strength to see the whole thing through to the end. And what's incredible to me: because it's an outdated method, people want to throw the whole thing away. Just because it's old. We live in modern times, and the phone is, let's say, a medium that is sadly being forgotten. But that's not true. From the statistics you can see, you can tell that many companies, many partnerships still use the phone, especially the ones that can come about through cold calling, because that way you can quickly and effectively get direct contact with the right person. Or with several right people, if you play ping-pong through the whole company.

11:00Dominka: I think that's exactly it: people don't have the patience anymore to see something like that through.

Franjo: Exactly.

Dominka: Even though in the end it actually turns out that you've built a real connection with people. There are a lot of AI tools that try to mask that somehow, to go out with the whole thing and just do marketing or email marketing and so on. What do you say to that?

11:35Franjo: I mean, all well and good. But person-to-person contact really is something you have to take into account.

11:44Dominka: Would you switch the other things off completely, or would you rather say it's a good combination?

11:49Franjo: It's always a good combination to have several things. That's always important. It's always good to move with the times and know: okay, I have to add other things there too.

12:21Franjo: First, that it's hard.

Dominka: Is it?

12:24Franjo: No, it's not hard at all. Second, that we're disturbing the person who picks up the phone. And the third is what we've already discussed: that it's outdated. First, it's still an active way to reach someone, we've already said that. Second, you can actually help the person who picks up, meaning the contact person, do their job better in the end. Why? Because you can actively give them a good solution for the problems they have, or for ones they don't even know they have. And of course the last thing I want to address: is cold calling hard? No, it's not hard at all. You just have to pick up the receiver, dial a number and call.

13:10Dominka: Let's talk about that a bit more. What could potentially be hard about it?

13:16Franjo: I'd address several things here. First: good preparation is a must. You can't just call blindly. I mean, you could, but then the success rate ends up being rather lower, and that's not the point of the whole thing. You always have to be well prepared. You have to know who you're calling and why you want to call this company or this person. And of course you also have to have the script, or better said the knowledge, to get the product you're presenting across well.

13:52Franjo: The other thing I want to mention: that you also have to be relaxed. And that's something you simply have to practice in the end. The well-known saying: Practice makes perfect. The more calls you make, the better you get at cold calling in the end. Sure, there are people who are naturally better on the first call, but that doesn't mean that people who are introverted, for example, can't learn it. So it's something every person should really try, to see how they'd do in a different kind of job like this.

14:32Dominka: Are you more of an extrovert?

14:34Franjo: I've asked myself that several times. Depending on the situation, I'm an extrovert or an introvert.

Dominka: What does it depend on? Probably not on cold calling, right?

14:42Franjo: Nope, on cold calling. When I'm cold calling, I'm an extrovert. But when I want to read a good book, for example, then I'm an introvert and don't want to talk to anyone.

14:52Dominka: So nobody's allowed to know what you've read? Or do you turn extrovert again later and want to tell everyone what it was?

Franjo: No, that's my business. I keep it in my heart, and I don't want to share it with people.

Dominka: Is that hard to live with?

15:04Franjo: Not really. You choose which version of yourself you give people and which you don't.

15:10Dominka: Fantastic. I'm glad you're extroverted on the phone. I think it really is important that you try to keep people engaged and play back and forth with them a bit, so you create some momentum. Because without momentum, I think, a call like that really falls flat.

15:27Franjo: And dry. That's also the worst thing that can happen: when the whole call is dry and you haven't built a connection with the person. Precisely when that happens, you know that whatever follows, nothing that good can come of it. For example, a day or two ago I had a wonderful conversation with a contact person who told me: please don't call me in two months and say: yes, we spoke two months ago. And my instinct was immediately: you put that really well, but the tone still needs a bit of adjusting, then it would be better.

16:10Dominka: You told him that?

Franjo: Yes.

Dominka: How did he react?

16:13Franjo: He laughed and said: you know what? I'll give you my email.

16:19Dominka: And then we can talk about it again in three months. I think that's great. When you want to do a bit of coaching yourself during the call and you think: hey, that's not how it's done, I'm not buying that from you. And you turned the tables right away.

Franjo: Exactly.

16:34Dominka: That can actually work quite well too. But then maybe that's already a master trick. That's not something you'd have done on your first call, right?

16:42Franjo: No, no. The first call, I can still remember it. Oh God, the first call. I know that back then I was asking about lead generation and so on, and somehow I ended up at a completely different company that does the marketing for that first company. And I thought to myself: I really blew it. But okay, I didn't lose heart. I told myself: okay, I'm going to learn from this experience. And also from the second call, the third, the fourth. The fifth call was already okay.

Dominka: See?

17:16Franjo: See, yes. Practice makes perfect.

Dominka: Absolutely.

17:20Franjo: And after 100 calls, everything works. Then you can crack jokes too.

17:25Dominka: Wait, something just occurred to me. I wrote it down beforehand too: good preparation and practice. You've already mentioned that. But there may be one more really important thing, and that's maybe also a myth we might be able to put to rest. Do you think cold calling is suitable for every industry? Yes or no?

Franjo: No.

Dominka: Is there an industry where you'd say: it's really hard there, better not do it, do it with something else?

17:59Franjo: So far I haven't come across that industry.

Dominka: Yes, because you've just read up on it, and then it's become your industry.

18:06Franjo: Exactly, then it fits. But I simply look at it statistically. There are industries, for example mechanical engineering or enclosure manufacturing, where cold calling works wonderfully. You see wonderful things, get a contact person right away, can discuss the whole thing with them, take further steps and so on. So, works great. Software too: if, for example, you have good software and want to get to a customer quickly, cold calling is also an incredibly good way to do it. But statistically speaking there's surely an industry, which I can't name right now, where you'd better not use cold calling, because then you'd rather get the opposite effect.

18:58Dominka: But I'd rather say you get the opposite effect when you go off the rails and somehow call in completely the wrong way. Or have a product that's really made for an end customer, or rather a private individual, and want to try it in B2B. But in B2B, I think, you could be on the safe side with cold calling. I wouldn't limit it to an industry, but to the size of the company. If a company is still small, just starting out, doesn't have a sales strategy of its own yet and has maybe already sold a few things to potential customers, then I think it pays to simply do it exclusively yourself and not hire anyone else, when you're only at the beginning of a product or service you want to pass on.

20:03Franjo: Yes, I'd agree with that too. Especially because in situations like that you also have to take the market itself into account. If you have a new product where you don't yet know how the market would react to it, who the competitors are, how big the companies it's made for are and so on, then the step you mentioned would be a good step: that in the end you first do it yourself. Or possibly also bring in consulting, so that you know better how to do good sales and good cold calling.

20:40Dominka: Yes, so that someone tells you what you can do. You can simply listen to a podcast like this one, then you'll already get a few tips and tricks.

Franjo: Exactly.

20:48Dominka: I think that really suits above all people who aren't fully into sales themselves yet and are still the only ones who know their product.

21:00Dominka: There's one thing I think you didn't mention, and that's a key in cold calling: enthusiasm for the product. And if it's a founder who has just brought out a product, then I don't think he can fully outsource his enthusiasm, which is still a bit reserved because he doesn't know yet where the whole thing is going, or transfer it to someone who's supposed to do it for him in cold calling. Or maybe even on a commission basis, God forbid. Then I think it's a total mess. So definitely: good preparation, practice and enthusiasm, I'd say. Because if you weren't enthusiastic about the things you try to bring in for our partners by phone with cold calling, then I don't think it would work at all, right?

22:00Franjo: True. You also have to be convinced of the product yourself, all fired up, so to speak, about the project or about the client you have. Because when you make calls as an extended arm of prospecting, you also have to take a part of the company with you, because in the end you represent the company or the client. We had a project there, exactly one like that, because it's a special project and a very special client, a very likeable gentleman with whom we discussed the whole thing. For such a specific project, where you spoke directly with a great many contact persons, you really needed not just the know-how and not just good preparation, you really had to be all fired up about it. Because you had to run the conversation in a different way.

22:57Dominka: You don't have to reveal the name, but what's the industry? I think I know what you're talking about.

Franjo: It was consulting too.

23:03Dominka: Okay, good. And the thing really is this: sometimes you take on projects where you yourself don't know whether they'll work or not. Then you maybe have to throw yourself into the whole topic a bit harder.

23:17Franjo: Exactly. And especially the project we just briefly mentioned: for that project we really first had to be convinced that the whole thing works. We really listened to the podcasts and also discussed the whole thing several times with the contact person. He gave us tips on how we could do the whole thing well. And in the end it worked well. So I completely agree with you: preparation, practice and also being all fired up about it.

23:50Dominka: What is very, very often the biggest problem for others who don't do this every day, aren't as well trained as we are and don't do it as their main job, is probably a psychological barrier: how do I do this? I think every one of us had it. I don't think anyone who started with us said right away: this is my dream job, and I can hardly wait to get my first rejection.

24:23Franjo: I don't think so. Nobody had that kind of idea or that kind of motivation at the start. But what could help to somehow overcome all the stress that comes with cold calling would be to have a ritual, so to speak.

Dominka: Okay. What's yours?

24:45Franjo: I make myself coffee.

Dominka: Oh, before every call?

24:47Franjo: Not before every call, but about every two hours I have to make myself a coffee. And depending on the day, a good song has to be played here and there too. And after I've prepared myself mentally like that, with a good coffee and good music, I know: okay, now I can make my first calls of the day. And no matter how the calls go, I know I've done my preparation. I'm mentally prepared, and whether it's a rejection or a yes, I know that in the end I did my job well.

25:23Dominka: What tip would you give people for this psychological barrier they want to overcome? One tip is surely: don't do it, right?

Franjo: Exactly.

Dominka: If you really have to do it. And you have to do it.

Franjo: Yes.

25:42Dominka: What would you say? Maybe three tricks or three ways to overcome it. Coffee and listening to music, we can already take that away. But that might not help everyone. What is it in practice where you'd say: hey, this is how it's done, and this is how it gets more relaxed?

26:04Franjo: Let me think about that a bit.

Dominka: Yes, go ahead.

26:09Franjo: First of all I'd say: don't take the whole thing too personally, meaning what the other person says. No matter whether it's a contact person or the person in charge. No matter whether they're mean that day or won't put you through or say for the umpteenth time: yes, please send an email, which is already a situation I personally don't like, but okay. Just take it on board and say: okay, she's said it now, I'll keep doing my job professionally, the way I've done it so far. Second, you always have to be aware: when I hang up, she can no longer hear what I say. And then the frustration can come out. Phone down and then let all the thunder out. And lastly: always keep a smile. That works for me at least. Because if you can keep the smile through the whole conversation, the other person hears it too and then, so to speak, hopefully loses the motivation to keep being so mean, and sees: okay, your words haven't touched me. You can't hurt me with your words.

27:24Dominka: Okay, so a mantra, especially for the people who aren't positive …

Franjo: … a mantra, so to speak.

27:29Dominka: But you also have to say that there are a lot of calls that are simply pleasant and nice. They might not lead anywhere either, but at least the majority aren't calls where someone at reception or some contact person yells right in your face that you shouldn't call anymore, right?

27:49Franjo: Yes, there are rather few calls that really end with someone yelling at me and saying: please don't call anymore. Because many people in B2B are professional, after all, and say in a very nice way: Please take us out of the pool, or: strike our number from the list, as they so nicely put it. But with most of them you can also have good conversations, come to a conclusion, get feedback in the end and of course, the most positive thing, set up a meeting.

28:25Dominka: Yes. And something you also always have to keep in mind: there are plenty of others you can call.

Franjo: Exactly.

Dominka: You can't really do anything wrong. You can't burn so many contacts that you couldn't approach them again a bit differently later, or you simply hope they've forgotten that we called once. I'll try again in three months. I actually like the customer, and I think we'd be a good fit, let it mature a bit. Because you can't mature either if you've tried it once and say: nah, that's not for me. I think you have to do it for a few years to say it's not for you.

Franjo: Exactly, exactly.

29:03Dominka: Over time, I think, it becomes everyone's cup of tea if you just keep at it.

Franjo: I agree.

29:11Dominka: Would you say it's also just psychologically hard to make a lot of calls every day because you feel you have other things to do as well? We're not talking about us now, who are BDRs and can do this every day, but about a salesperson who, alongside cold calling, also has to hold meetings or first maintain an inventory management system and call their existing customers. They probably also lack the time for cold calling, right?

29:56Franjo: In a way, yes, of course. If, for example, you're on your own or have a small team, you simply need an external partner who does all the pre-sales for you. Because if you make 70 calls a day, you really burn through your energy for that day, for the five, six hours in which you're making the calls. And afterwards you're simply wiped out. When you've talked to 70 people, you're, let's say, out of energy by the end of it. And then you have to do something again, meditate, do sports or the like, so that you find the energy for the rest of the day. So for companies that, for example, have a small sales team that can't manage that many calls, an external partner would be a good solution. Because then the first part of the job, meaning the pre-sales, can be done by someone who is responsible only for that. And the meetings and all the follow-ups that come after can then be done by someone else who specializes only in that.

31:19Dominka: Tell me, working in sales is an ego-driven job. That's not really a secret, I'd say. You want to see success.

Franjo: Exactly.

Dominka: Whether you get an extra reward for it or not, you simply want to see it, because success in itself is already a reward for having done something well. How do you, or the team you talk to, deal with self-doubt? Is it something that comes up very often, and how do you make up for it?

31:53Franjo: I'd say it's something that keeps coming up, self-doubt. Especially when you've had a conversation that went really, fundamentally badly, where you heard the worst, the worst insults and so on. Then you really have to take some time, sit down and ask: okay, what did I do wrong now? Of course the self-doubt comes up again then too, and you have to think and see what you can do well there. And that's where the team helps, of course, saying: you did everything great. You did everything you could from your side. You asked the right questions, behaved correctly, talked to the right person too and in the end got feedback. So you can see: you did your job. So you don't need to have self-doubt, because you did the basics of the job well. And how you can look at it positively: in the end you at least did some data mining. So you can also turn the self-doubt you have into something good, if you have a good team and a good mindset for it.

33:12Dominka: So you'd also say that it's not only an appointment or a won deal that's a success, but also the small things: that you managed to get enough contact persons on the phone. Or maybe also got a lot of rejections that you learned something new from.

Franjo: Exactly.

Dominka: And exactly those kinds of things should put self-doubt to rest.

Franjo: Right.

33:35Dominka: And then the people around you who think the same way. I think it's very, very important to celebrate every success, small or big, as a team too.

Franjo: Right.

Dominka: How do you do that?

33:49Franjo: Either I say: yes, I did it! Or I tell such a bad joke that I bring the whole atmosphere to a standstill for at least a minute. But as I said, even small successes like that, for example when you hit the daily quota or have set up a meeting, you really have to celebrate. Because then you know: everything you prepared for and practiced for has paid off in the end.

34:23Dominka: Yes, I think that's a very, very important thing. And a few years ago we didn't do that at all. When we started and there were only a few people, you knew right away that someone had booked an appointment, because they said it out loud. But now if someone is working from home or the door is closed and you've booked a meeting, you don't just yell out: got a meeting! It's not the kind of atmosphere where you disturb the others straight away because you've booked a meeting. But what's a really good thing: introducing automation there, which we've done too.

Franjo: Exactly.

34:59Dominka: We've been doing that for years now, but you sometimes forget it. And it's maybe also not a bad tip to just say: hey guys, pick a tool where you can write that you've just booked an appointment, or note it in your CRM so that everyone gets a notification: hey, I booked an appointment today. Yay, I'm feeling good! I think that's really important too, and you're always really happy when you see it. And if you get a few likes for it, that's sometimes better than Instagram likes. Hey, I did it! I didn't just post a photo of myself where I look good, but: hey, look, I did something good at work, and I'm totally happy. The customer is always totally happy too when you can give them a result.

Franjo: True.

35:47Dominka: That's actually something you want to see too. You also want to get a little round of applause for what you've done, right?

35:52Franjo: Yes, exactly. But that immediately relates to the ego we already talked about. Sales is an ego thing, everyone knows it, as you already said. And we have to be aware: when you set up a good meeting, you feel better afterwards. And then you feel like setting up another meeting, because you just don't want to forget the feeling. I set up a meeting, I want to set up another one. I want to set up another one. But then I want the second meeting to be even better in quality. So it's something that never ends, but rather, let's say, a cycle in which you always want to make something better, either in the meeting or in yourself.

36:33Dominka: And I think you definitely also have to be happy for your colleagues when they've done it.

Franjo: Of course.

36:39Dominka: And not say: hey, he's already booked three meetings, and I don't have one yet this week. I don't think that's something you should focus on. You should rather say: hey, dear colleague, could you maybe tell me what I can do better here? Because three weeks ago I also had a lucky streak like you, and now it's not going so well. We actually do that actively, and maybe we can pass it on to people too: please don't be put off because your colleague is better today. Tomorrow it'll probably, or maybe, be you.

37:11Franjo: Or, I'd add, simply ask your colleague. If you have a healthy team, you can ask: how did you do that? What questions did you ask? What mindset did you go into the conversation with? How can I improve? Can you show me or briefly explain how you did it, so that I can get better in the end? And when I've then learned something new, I can help the person: I tried this once, give it a try, maybe it works better on your project than on mine. So you always have to want to help each other, especially in jobs like this. You can be competitive, it's okay to want to be better than the others. But you always have to keep in mind: okay, I want to get better together with that person, so that in the end the whole team can benefit.

38:08Dominka: Yes, I think it's very, very valuable that we have it this way. Because there are a lot of freelancers who do this for other companies and don't have colleagues they can touch base with and share their experience with. That's something we can pass on to the world from our side: hey, if you know someone who does this too, maybe doesn't sit in the same company as you, call those people, ask, or listen to something somewhere that can help you. I think we all have the same problems. And again and again it's this: the success isn't there, and you know it really should have come by now. It's important to have a good team.

38:48Franjo: True, exactly. Just imagine you're a freelancer, working alone, and you don't hear any corny jokes all day.

Dominka: I'd love that. I mean, I'd put up with you.

38:58Franjo: Then why do you work in sales if you don't have corny jokes?

39:02Dominka: You're right there, absolutely. That's the valuable thing about sales: that you always have someone who can tell really bad jokes.

Franjo: Exactly.

39:10Dominka: Okay, Franjo. Before we talk about successful strategies in cold calling and round the whole thing off with a few tools and technologies in cold calling, I have a little challenge for you, or rather Kim has prepared a little challenge. We're going to do a quick elevator pitch now. Relax, these are your five minutes now. I'll give you a very unusual thing that you're supposed to present in a pitch. We've got a product and a difficult target group for you, and you now have to sell the product to this target group. It's ice and Eskimos.

39:57Franjo: Doable.

39:58Dominka: The Eskimo lives somewhere in the snow, North Pole, no idea, Alaska. Doesn't matter, picture him wherever you want. And you have to sell him ice. He has plenty of it, but be my guest.

40:17Franjo: No problem at all. We'll do it with the phone, right?

40:22Dominka: Do you want to call him, or do you just want to give him a pitch like that? I'm the Eskimo. Hello? Yes, I'm cold.

40:28Franjo: Yes, I can relate, I'm cold too. This is Franjo on the line from the D-Ice company. I don't know if you've heard of D-Ice.

Dominka: Nope, I haven't … I have.

40:42Franjo: Ah, you see. You only have ice, but not D-Ice. You don't know what I'm talking about.

40:49Dominka: My ex-wife, her name starts with D. I don't want to buy anything.

40:56Franjo: I can relate to that too, my ex was like that too.

Dominka: Maybe it was the same one. Go on.

41:02Franjo: I'm here to briefly present what it is.

Dominka: Yes, go ahead. I've only got two minutes right now.

41:10Franjo: Yes, no problem. One thing I've noticed: you live in Alaska, right?

Dominka: Could be.

41:15Franjo: Could be, yes, possibly. And since you live in Alaska, you've surely noticed that you don't get that much light, daylight, that the food isn't that good and so on.

41:28Dominka: Yes, I can manage food, but I could use a bit more light.

41:32Franjo: And do you know what the problem is when you don't have daylight? You don't have vitamin D.

Dominka: Okay.

41:37Franjo: And no other vitamins either that come along with it. So what's important there? Health, of course.

41:44Dominka: You're right about that. The old lady really stressed me out over the last …

41:47Franjo: Exactly, me too, the old lady. I lost all my hair, I'm bald now, and I thought I have to do something about it. So I took a lot of vitamins and thought to myself, there's surely another way to do the whole thing. And this is where the ice comes into play: it's ice that has the vitamins.

42:07Dominka: Does it help against baldness?

Franjo: Of course not.

Dominka: Well, that's an honest answer for a start.

42:13Franjo: Nope, I tried it, unfortunately it doesn't work. The only thing I got from it: a cold head.

42:20Dominka: Yeah, okay. I could use that too, mine is pretty hot.

42:23Franjo: Exactly. So, of course it works for a cold head too, but in the end you also get the vitamins you're missing. What I'd advise you now: just take two blocks of vitamin D, so that you have them in your igloo, and as needed a little …

42:43Dominka: How do you take it? Lick it, choke it down?

42:46Franjo: That's also an option. I'd advise against choking, rather, for example, letting it melt a bit. I think it's a great thing that everyone needs who has the same ex with the name D as the two of us.

42:59Dominka: Yes, you've convinced me with the ex. Send a few samples over.

Franjo: Of course.

Dominka: Then we'll see.

Franjo: We'll see. No problem.

43:07Dominka: See? That was actually it. Just the ex or something like that. Awesome, right? Finding a connection with him.

43:14Franjo: Right. And if you can find the connection, you can have a good call and in the end achieve good things too. You have to be able to build a connection with the contact person.

43:27Dominka: I once talked to someone who, when I said that in cold calling it's very important to really listen, said: no, it's actually more important to have a good pitch. Well, how do you want to have a pitch if you haven't listened to what the person on the other end has to say? Huh? I can have the best pitch, but if the other person just listens in silence, they might as well hang up.

43:58Dominka: I do that very often myself. When someone calls me and tries to sell me phone services and so on, I also say right away: hey, I really don't need that. And then they just keep going with their pitch, which isn't bad at all. But I think to myself: you didn't even hear that I don't want it. Then he asks me: you haven't even heard what it's about. Well, that's also not the best question you can ask me right now. Because I have an idea of what it is, and I think it's pretty accurate. I told you that earlier too: I wouldn't anyway. I don't even have the cash to buy it. You kept going anyway, but didn't ask straight away: right, why don't you have the cash and so on. That would also have missed the mark.

44:46Franjo: Exactly. But just as you mentioned: you have to be able to ask good questions to bring out the contact person's problem. So that he knows: aha, I have a problem I have to solve. Can this person I'm talking to solve the problem for me or help me solve it? Yes or no? And if I trust the person and in the end the product too, then I want to buy it, or better said: I, on the other side, can then sell it.

45:15Dominka: So really ask open questions too. Don't wait for them to say yes or no.

45:21Franjo: Exactly. Open questions, and of course asking all the questions in the right tone, so that a lot can really come out of the person. So that they even say it themselves or admit to themselves: okay, I have a situation I can't solve at the moment. Can you help me with it somehow? Completely unconsciously, when they say it like that.

45:42Dominka: And that's actually the success strategy you use every day too.

45:47Franjo: Exactly, that's my go-to, so to speak. I have a pitch, okay. I also have the knowledge about the product, okay. But what I do first when I talk to a contact person: ask a question. Is this something that's even interesting for you? Or, better said, even better: How far along are you in this area already? Or: do you have products for which you'd need services like this? When we then get talking, and that's usually the case, I can see from the conversation: okay, is the person a potential contact for us, or is the company potentially interesting for us? And then in the end I can also set up meetings. But the whole thing starts with a question. Not with a pitch, with a question, because I want to know where the person stands on this topic.

46:39Dominka: Now Franjo is going to tell one of his best jokes anyway.

46:44Franjo: I've got one that I've been using quite often lately. Did you know that Chuck Norris can stand faster than you can run?

Dominka: No. That's it?

Franjo: That's it.

47:03Dominka: That was so … that was freaking awesome. Do you really tell that one to people on the phone too? Please don't.

47:15Franjo: If the situation fits, yes.

47:18Dominka: I hope it never will. You really manage to bring me down completely with your jokes every single time.

47:31Franjo: Thank you. Here and there I've had a situation where the joke was appropriate, and I just brought it across.

Dominka: Okay. What was the situation?

47:42Franjo: I think we were talking about something everyday, and he said: Oh, the salespeople again.

47:48Dominka: And he's like: oh, I stand around here all day. And you're like: did you know that Chuck Norris even stands faster than you can run?

47:59Franjo: That's roughly how it worked. Here and there I have to loosen up the atmosphere a bit with a joke or a pun too. And if it works, it works.

48:09Dominka: But you could also insult the customer a bit with that joke. Maybe, if it was an annoying contact person, also quite directly: hey, Chuck Norris stands faster than you can run.

48:18Franjo: That's something I'm aware of. As I said, you really have to read from the other person whether you can do things like that. If the person shows: yes, you can make jokes, you can have a more relaxed conversation, then of course I'll maybe do things like that. But if I see that he's really someone who's very strict, has no time and doesn't want to talk much, then of course I won't make jokes like that. So it really depends on the other person.

48:50Dominka: Would you say telling a joke is also part of the success strategy?

48:54Franjo: Not necessarily a joke, but being funny somehow. Or not even that, but loosening up the atmosphere. If you can loosen up the atmosphere in the conversation, you can also get to feedback more easily and set up a meeting. So being funny isn't strictly necessary. But if you can get the other person to relax, you've already gone half the way. And if you can then tell a joke as well, you're over the hump.

49:24Dominka: Cool. Franjo, a very important thing in cold calling is that you should try to use your time efficiently. Not waste time doing everything else and no cold calls. In this century we manage to speed the whole thing up with a bit of automation and technology. What do you use, and what would you say are allowed things in cold calling, and what should you avoid?

49:56Franjo: Well, the things I use are hopefully all legal.

50:00Dominka: I think so. I don't know what else you might have as your own strategy. What you're provided with, that's basically it.

50:07Franjo: Okay. What I use: incredibly good is a CRM system where you really have all the people, all the deals, all the tasks and see what you have to do that day, or, if you have new ones, how many you should open each day. And if you also have a system on top of that, which of course we have too, where you can see: aha, today I made this many calls, this many didn't pick up, I opened this many contacts. That's a great thing for keeping statistics and seeing, for example, how the whole project is going overall. So these tools are good. To improve the quality itself, the efficiency and also the numbers, you also have to use automation in that respect.

51:01Dominka: Yes, okay. So you don't make calls on a rotary phone, but on a …

51:06Franjo: Well, okay, if you put it that way, yes, of course that too. There I also use a program that lets you dial faster instead of nicely turning all the numbers.

51:19Dominka: Yes, that's an important thing too. There are people who do cold calling on their mobile or on a landline. That takes longer.

Franjo: That takes longer.

51:26Dominka: So definitely get software where you can quickly copy the number in from the CRM or, even better, call directly from the CRM. Where you can also write everything down and make notes right away. You can also help yourself with a dialer that already has all the numbers in it that you want to call that day. Like you said earlier: the tasks are already prepared. All wonderful. You can also create an email in advance and then see: hey, now we've discussed this, now I'll pull in this part. It doesn't have to be a manually written email every time. We don't have to put ourselves through that either. Very often you can already create a very, very good template and improve it after the call.

52:12Franjo: Of course. But that's also part of the preparation for the project itself. If you have a good script, you also have to have a good email, a good email template, and of course things like PDFs, for example, that you can put into the email to improve the whole thing. So there are many things you can use to automate the whole thing and of course make cold calling faster. So that you don't need 20 minutes per call to write everything down and send an email, but already have everything ready and are done with everything in three minutes.

52:46Dominka: Franjo, we've reached the end of this episode. We'd like to round everything off now. Let's tell everyone once more, loud and clear, why cold calling isn't dead. There are even podcasts being made about it.

Franjo: Exactly.

53:05Dominka: That's the first sign that it hasn't died yet and will probably stay around forever, as long as there are phones.

53:13Franjo: Exactly. As long as there are phones, as long as there are numbers, you can do it. It makes you an active person who actively takes part in the sales process. You're not passive, you want to make a change, and you make that change happen by putting the number into the program and simply calling. Of course you have to be well prepared beforehand. And that way you can build a good relationship with the contact person and of course achieve better results. So cold calling is something that's still alive and will live for a long time yet. And the myth that cold calling is dead: that's something you have to forget completely. Cold calling is alive and will live for a very long time.

54:02Dominka: Cold calling is immortal. Amen. Wonderful. Franjo, one more quick piece of advice for someone who's just starting out and still feels inhibited about getting started, but already knows: I have to do it.

54:18Franjo: I'd put it like this: pick up the receiver, or grab the headset, put the headset on your head, dial the number, prepare well and just call. Nothing bad can happen. In the end you can only get good things out of it. If you have a team, even better. If you do it alone: find someone who tells you that you did a great job. If you're the only person doing it, then do that for yourself. Then say: yes, I did a great job today. And just call. Have courage and always keep in mind: what I'm doing is something that can help everyone.

54:58Dominka: Cool. Franjo, thank you so much for your time and for the really exciting things you told us today. I'd say this is a topic you can really talk about a lot, lot more. I'd be really happy if you came over again and we did the whole thing again, with a few other topics or maybe a few more bad jokes and prep tricks for the live call and so on. I can well imagine that you've still got a few tricks there that you can share with the world.

55:28Franjo: I'd always love to.

Dominka: Great. See you then.

Franjo: See you.