Sports Mindset in B2B Sales: Why Endurance Brings More Meetings Than Talent

2:52Dominka: Okay. The topic we wanted to talk about today, because we can both maybe contribute something, but you maybe a bit more, because over the last few years you've been doing sport much more intensively than me. Although I'm not that bad either.

3:05Franjo: No, I know you do Pilates. And I know you're into climbing, not mountaineering.

Dominka: And in winter?

3:28Franjo: Are you a snowboard or a ski type?

3:30Dominka: No ski, I'm not a skier. Do I look like a skier?

Franjo: I don't know what a skier looks like.

Dominka: You don't know the difference. Maybe I do look like a skier.

Franjo: Yes, a bit. But you're a snowboard type.

3:45Dominka: I'm a snowboard girl. At least I try to be, I'm not that good. But the Olympic Games, the Winter Games, are on right now. Yesterday you could really watch the snowboarder. Did you watch it?

Franjo: No.

4:05Dominka: That was really crazy. And what people need in sport and everything they do can actually be compared nicely with sales. I think athletes who are maybe at the end of their careers could be very good salespeople, because of the endurance and so on, when you just wait a long time for something good to happen. That's how it is for us.

4:34Franjo: That's one thing. When I started with sport, I once read something I found very interesting, a very interesting mindset: What's the difference between a good athlete and the greatest of all time? The greatest of all time: For him it's okay to do boring things. And he knows that he has to do the boring things anew every single day. And he enjoys the boredom. He knows: This is the one thing he has to do every day to perfect the finest motor skills. And it's the same for us, for example.

Dominka: Good point.

5:19Franjo: Every day we make hundreds, if not thousands …

Dominka: Maybe 1,000 in total, with everyone.

5:29Franjo: … with everyone, calls in which we practise on every single call: how to open properly, what you can say, how to adjust well to a spontaneous situation. That's why it's a mindset that's pretty good, especially for presales. Because I have to make 20, 30, 40 calls to get through to one contact person. But I should do that with a smile on my face and enjoy the whole thing, because it really is a process of maturing.

6:08Dominka: That's absolutely right. You just don't notice it for a long time, or you're not even aware of it. But with that thought you're reminding me of what our snowboard instructor told us back then: Hey, Talent is one thing, but you simply have to show endurance or just always stay consistent. I thought to myself: What kind of cliché is that? It's totally a cliché, but it's the honest truth.

Franjo: That's the truth.

6:44Dominka: Simply showing endurance and eagerness, and that's sales. Especially the part of sales that we do. So there's already a really good connection to sport. And what's also important to say again: With endurance, or if you simply stick with it, in sport you can actually beat talent too. If someone is very talented, maybe they need less. But if they don't keep going, they still stay at the same level. That applies to everything in life, for example drawing too, that's not necessarily sport: stick with it, keep going, and then you reach the level. If you're there and happy with it, that's okay. But actually, at a later point that won't be enough anymore. You always have to show endurance again and keep going so that you get to the next level.

7:44Franjo: And that's, for example, also a very good mindset going forward: that you never – I'm not saying you're never satisfied with where you are, but that you always see room for improvement. No matter what you do. No matter whether you've set up a meeting or had a simple conversation with someone at the switchboard. I noticed it today, for example: I talked to a contact person, he gave me everything, but at one moment I could have been a bit more cheerful, a bit more optimistic, or asked for something a bit more assertively. Those are things I know in hindsight now and that I'll definitely keep in mind on the next call. That means I did a good job, but I see the chance to do one detail better.

8:41Dominka: So first there's the part where you get the practice and then you're in the practice. And then you can also play around a bit within that practice, so get better tactically. Then you get to the point where you actually see your first success. Whatever that is for you. It's the same in sport. Maybe you learn a totally new move that you didn't have, I don't know, in snowboarding. Or in weightlifting you're suddenly not at 20 anymore, but at 50 kilos or so. That's a thing where I think: Okay, cool. I still remember, years ago, when I started climbing, I thought to myself: I'll never in my life manage to hold on to such small crimps. Now that's totally normal for me. I can't even understand now that I thought that back then. It's always a nice thing to think back to it. Wow, okay. The first success: For us, the first success is maybe that you reach the right contact person and get your pitch out.

9:51Franjo: Yes, or also the first call where you don't freeze up and haven't forgotten your own name.

Dominka: Yes, that's wild too.

10:02Franjo: In my opinion that's already a success too, because you know: Okay, you've relaxed enough to have a normal conversation with the other side. That's why you can really divide it into small segments, like in sport, where you see: Yes, I've already made progress on the smallest things. That means I can make progress on big things too.

10:28Dominka: But now here's a thing. Maybe it's worth a comparison: There's the sport you do just for the sake of sport, in the sense of: I just do sport to stay fit and feel good. And then the goal is simply that feeling good, that wellbeing, as it's nicely called now. And then there's also sport where you're very competitive. It's a bit like that in sales too: You'd actually like to do sales, and it's important to you to reach the goal. But maybe it doesn't always have to be the big breakthrough and success, and pushing the numbers ever higher. What's more important for you? To put the question concretely: doing the same thing continuously and setting small goals, or always somehow wanting to break through something, like a record in sport?

11:30Franjo: I can actually answer that from both perspectives. You know, for example, that I love deadlifting more than anything in sport. It's my absolute favourite discipline. If I could do one thing every day: deadlifting. Unfortunately I'm not allowed to. But the thing is, why do I think both are important? Because every now and then I have to see where my limit is. Then there's easily 250 kilos on the bar, and I try to lift the 250 kilos. If it works, good. If not, okay, then I see: Something isn't right, because that should be my maximum. If I can lift it, then I know: Okay, I've broken through one of my limits, and next time I'll try more. But every now and then I try whether I can lift 100 kilos, for example, because I need to know that I'm still consistent. And I can do that several times, for example several times a week. Because I have to see that I still master the small things, the small steps. But every now and then, let's say in a normal period once a month, I really try to break through the limit, to show myself that I've made progress.

12:49Franjo: That's also very important for ourselves. You see, for example, whether you set up more meetings in one month than in other months, and why you managed that. Today, for example, I know that I set my record: This month I set up 7 meetings for one project.

13:07Dominka: Yes, but that's also the same in sport as in sales. A dry spell is always there. There's always a time when things just aren't going so well. And you can simply counter it if you have a mindset where you know: I just have to keep going well, and then the reward comes eventually.

Franjo: Exactly, consistently.

13:29Dominka: And especially the first part, always being there consistently and being content with that, is super important for getting to your breakthrough at all. But it's very dangerous when the breakthrough keeps coming quickly. That's really like in sport. There are many top athletes who turn to doping because they want to be even stronger, because consistency isn't enough for them. It's the same in sales. There are people …

Franjo: Wolf of Wall Street.

14:03Dominka: They took an enormous amount of drugs. They just always wanted to get better, and then it almost doesn't matter to you how you do sales. That just can't be.

Franjo: No, that can't be.

Dominka: That's the dark side.

14:15Franjo: That's the dark side. Because, as already mentioned: when you get to that one specific limit, how many meetings you can set up per month, let's say, or how many calls you can make …

14:28Dominka: Or deals, too. Deal, deal, deal, then 10 come at once, and then nothing for a very long time.

14:37Franjo: Exactly. Now here's the thing: Once you've reached that one specific limit, let's say, ideally without taking drugs …

Dominka: Yes, please. Don't take drugs, folks.

14:51Franjo: Please. If you want to reach the next limit, you need a lot of patience. I noticed that very, very quickly at the gym. In the first few months I got from a 100-kilo deadlift up to 180 kilos without any problems. I managed that in 2, 3 months, without big problems. But then the jump from 180 to 200 was incredibly hard mentally for me, because I didn't know whether I could do it. I had to put in an incredible amount of energy, patience, practice and so on to make it. And eventually I broke through that limit too. But as I said, it took me much more time than the first jump from 100 to 180.

15:50Franjo: And I think it's a similar thing in sales. The numbers aren't as easy to measure, let's say, but surely every one of us has at some point reached a limit like that, where you know: Okay, now I have to be very patient, and at some point it will all pay off. But then you really have to stick it out.

16:14Dominka: That's really how it is. It's just: don't give up. The reward comes. Of course it's very hard when someone feels mentally very burdened and thinks: I can't do this anymore. But I'm really sure: Once you've been in sport, you always stay in sport, and once you've been in sales, you always stay in sales too. It's very hard to somehow get out of that sales mode again. It's simply a part of your life. Even if you did something else, I think you'd always have that: I go step by step, in a structured way. That's my goal, that's where I have to get to. And very important, just like in sport: When things aren't going well, you have to keep running.

Franjo: Exactly. It's also okay …

Dominka: And you're allowed to rest sometimes too.

17:04Franjo: Exactly, true. That's especially important. Now I want to address both things very briefly. First: You have to stick it out. When I started with Jiu-Jitsu – hello, my coach, I hope you're watching this –, when I started, it was incredibly hard for me mentally, because my ego suffered every single day. Someone who was smaller and weaker than me beat me. That went on for months. But at some point you simply have to push the ego down and say: Okay. This is part of the whole process. With every loss I learn something new. And then you can easily fight heavier people too and show: Yes, I finally bite back now. Even when you're really at rock bottom mentally, you simply have to show staying power. And the second thing was … now I've just …

18:09Dominka: I've lost the thread now too. What else did I say? Oh yes: resting a bit.

18:14Franjo: Exactly, resting. That's really the most important thing. Eddie Hall put it very nicely: Everyone who did strongman with me is one of the best people who train. But why am I the best? Because I can rest better. And that's something that's really, really important. Simply, when you shut down the laptop, stop thinking about what happened in the last conversation with the contact person.

18:50Dominka: Yes, those are small breaks. I think you also have to treat yourself to a longer break sometimes, you know? A proper holiday where you do nothing …

Franjo: Yes, two weeks.

18:58Dominka: Yes, or there are also people who take a sabbatical, they're gone for a whole year. I think that's okay too. It can't hurt either, if afterwards you know: Okay, I'm going to do this again, but right now I just want to switch off and do nothing, and then I'll come back completely fresh. That's not bad either.

Franjo: That's very important.

19:21Dominka: I've also always found it exciting when people quit with us and then somehow came back after all. I think that's really cool, and nice too, when you simply …

Franjo: … have found yourself again.

19:39Dominka: … want to distance yourself from something you maybe suffered under for a while, that you did a lot and maybe a lot came out of it, but now enough is enough.

19:52Franjo: Exactly. But that also shows why people came back. Something suited them here. They said: Okay, now I've taken enough time, tried lots of things and realised I want to do sales again.

Dominka: Yes, that's exciting.

Franjo: Good feedback, too.

20:14Dominka: Every time, I'd say too. I did the same thing myself. For a while I wasn't only here either. But I did it in parallel.

Franjo: Yes, but that's …

Dominka: That's maybe something different, but still.

20:27Franjo: That's, I'd say, doubling up (German "doppelt gemoppelt": doing the same thing twice over), because you really have no rest day, no relaxation, you just go from task to task.

Dominka: Mentally you can switch over.

Franjo: Yes, but mentally you can't relax then.

20:42Dominka: That's true. But I also have to say: When I did the other job as a wedding planner, I still had to do a lot of sales work.

Franjo: Yes, true. I can imagine.

20:54Dominka: And organisationally, those are things I do here with us anyway, apart from sales. But not on that scale. It was a small balance, because you're somewhere else for a while and then back here. But in the long run that's no fun, I think. That's why I stopped it.

21:16Franjo: Good that in the end you did it for yourself.

Dominka: Exactly.

21:20Franjo: That was top-level sport already. And doing sport on top of that. Did you even have free time back then?

21:29Dominka: Yes, I was everywhere. I travelled too. I did everything quite normally, but back then I couldn't have had a dog, for example.

Franjo: True, you wouldn't have had time for the dog.

21:43Dominka: No, definitely not. I hardly have it now. The dog I have really needs 16 hours a day. That's a sport too. In the next podcast I'll bring my dog along.

Franjo: Please, please, please.

Dominka: I wanted to do that anyway.

22:05Dominka: Franjo, would you like to round off the whole thing? Why do sport and sales go hand in hand?

22:11Franjo: I'd put it like this: Sport shows you that you can show staying power even in the worst situations, that you enjoy the boredom, that through constant practice you show that you're one of the best, and then in the end you reap the laurels. So I'd say sport and sales are the same thing in concept.

22:43Dominka: Okay, so endurance is number one for getting to success, no matter in which …

Franjo: No matter in which discipline. Deadlifting too.

22:56Dominka: Exactly. I think that's a really nice message to send out. Do you think salespeople are better athletes, or do you think athletes are better salespeople than those who don't do sport?

23:14Franjo: I'd say that good salespeople can be better athletes.

Dominka: Good salespeople, okay. And athletes good salespeople?

Franjo: It depends.

23:25Dominka: But I have to say, I've been here for 10 years now. And I actually only started doing sport more actively about 10 years ago too. As a child I didn't do that much sport.

23:39Franjo: But was that because of sales?

Dominka: No, I just started doing sport more actively at the same time.

Franjo: That's definitely because of sales.

Dominka: No idea.

Franjo: That's no coincidence.

23:55Dominka: Sales drove me to sport. Could be, right?

Franjo: Yes, could be. Really.

24:03Dominka: Good. The conclusion is: Because we do sport, we're good salespeople, and because we're salespeople, we're also …

Franjo: … good athletes.

Dominka: Active athletes. We can find the connection in ourselves, maybe in many others too.

Franjo: Certainly.

24:20Dominka: But I'm sure: Someone who works for us or somewhere else in sales and started doing sport today would be better at it than someone who isn't in sales.

24:33Franjo: True. Because, as I said, they understand the basic concept: You have to stick it out to see the first results.

Dominka: That's good. With that message we can say goodbye for today, don't you think?

24:48Franjo: I'd add one more thing. There's an ultramarathon runner from Baden-Württemberg whom I find incredibly likeable. And in every one of his videos he always says: The kettle has to burn, it has to run. (German saying: keep the fire going, keep moving.) And that's a motto that always motivates me at the gym and in sales too, because it's so nicely simple. So: The kettle has to burn, it has to run.

25:17Dominka: All good. Then let's wrap it up there. Franjo, thank you for being here again today and giving us your insight into sport and sales.

Franjo: Any time.

25:25Dominka: Sport and sales sounds even a bit better. Listeners, viewers, however you see yourselves: Thank you so much for tuning in. You can add us on LinkedIn and keep following us, subscribe to our channel on YouTube, comment, share, whatever you like. Stay tight (stay in shape). Sales is a good thing. Sport is maybe an even much better and healthier one for you. But if you've already mastered one of the two, then you can do the other one too. It's even easier.

Franjo: Exactly.

26:02Dominka: So, Franjo, that's it. Thank you. Bye!

Franjo: Bye!