Cold Calling Canada vs Europe: 12 Touchpoints, Human Sales & Real Estate Truths

3:44Dominka: Okay. This is a really interesting topic for me, because we've never had clients from across the ocean. It's not actually our market, and we don't do cold calling over there. We are Europe-based, especially the DACH region.

Josip: Probably good because of the time zone.

4:03Dominka: The time zone, too. It was never really scary for us, we just don't know that market. And I always have a feeling, or a little bit of a prejudice, that it's really different from this market when we talk about cold calling, when we talk about restrictions over here and there. And if you've seen a couple of movies from Hollywood, you kind of get the impression that it's really a hard numbers game, compared to Europe, where, I'd say, you don't have the goal to just set a lot of appointments, and whatever gets in is fine. I have the feeling that over there you are really focused on a lot of quantity.

4:58Josip: It is. You are correct. It is a numbers game, and in all the sales trainings you go through, basically everyone is telling you it's a numbers game. I mean, I've worked for Chartwell, which is one of the best, sorry, I should say one of the biggest retirement home living companies in Canada, and that training taught me a lot about nurturing. So the focus was not so much on the numbers. The focus was how to turn a cold lead into a warm, then a hot lead.

5:49Dominka: But let's just classify the leads here. You're talking about private people moving into the retirement home?

5:57Josip: Correct. At some point they inquired, whether they are a senior themselves or a loved one, a family member. Mostly adult children would reach out, and then you would connect with them. You would qualify them, obviously, and you would do what we call a discovery: you discover what the time frame is, what they are looking for, what their budget is, and so on. And then you learn how to nurture those leads, because if you get an idea of what their time frame is, you know when to follow up. Which is crucial in the business, I think: to follow up at the right time. So timing is everything. And with proper follow-ups and proper nurturing, there's obviously a higher chance to convert.

7:07Josip: But what I can tell you is that the conversion rate definitely rises when you meet someone in person. That is the number one goal, both in retirement home living and in real estate: you need to meet that person in person to close the deal or make the sale, or at least your goal is maybe to schedule another appointment. So it's always that hunt for the prize, which is meeting this person again, showing them something or giving some value to their research or their search, whether it's real estate or a suite at the retirement home. You always want to meet them again, because the more times you meet with them, the more you interact with them, the higher the chances that you're going to close. You're building a relationship with them, you're nurturing that relationship and you're gaining their trust. And then it's all about finding the right fit for them that ticks all the boxes, and you're closing the sale.

8:48Dominka: How many calls did you need for somebody in the retirement home, let's say at that point of your life, to get them to want to meet you in person? Was that a different thing?

9:07Josip: Not that much. That's a very good question. It's not very different, I think. On average, you need to have at least 12 points of contact.

Dominka: Oh, really?

9:25Josip: On average, we're talking about on average, right? It's different from person to person.

Dominka: Yeah, it is.

9:35Josip: It is. But everybody has a different time frame. When someone calls you and tells you, "I'm not ready, I'm just doing my research, I'm looking six months from now," then, okay, this is someone I need to nurture. You're not going to schedule an appointment right away, because in six months you don't know what's going to be available, what's going to be on the market. So you nurture, but you still have those touchpoints, whether through text, email, phone call, whatever it is, to stay in the back of their mind. And then when the time is right, you reach out and you say: "Hey, it's getting closer to the time when you're looking to purchase or rent, and this is what's available right now. Come meet me in person, let's do a tour, let's do a showing, and then you can see for yourself whether this is going to work for you or not." But going back to your question: yes, on average there are about 12 touchpoints that you need to do with a colder lead to book an appointment.

10:59Josip: So you need to focus on offering some value. It's not just reaching out and asking the question: "Are you ready now? Are you ready now? Are you ready now?" No, it's about offering some value in the form of information, because information is power. Information is...

Dominka: Security.

11:25Josip: Yeah. You are educating your client or customer. You're educating them on the market, the situation, the prices, the promotions that are going on right now. So you're always reaching out with some form of value, some sort of value that is going to impress them or make them feel: okay, this is a very structured and well-planned follow-up. It's not just a simple "Hey, how are you? How are you doing? Are you ready now?" It's bringing that value, offering that value to the customer and client, which is going to give them confidence: okay, this is someone who is actually interested in helping me. Which it is: I am helping you.

12:26Dominka: Okay. So it's always the same mindset, then. Same here: in the end, we really are not there just to sell. Because I think with those who really are there just to sell and not to build relationships, just to get to the numbers, people really see that and can hear that. Or when you meet them in person.

12:53Josip: Yeah, for sure, you can see that. What makes a good salesperson a good salesperson is the ability to connect and build that relationship. And yes, as you said, in a way it is a numbers game, but those clients or customers that you manage to reach out to and connect with, those are the people you're going to nurture and build a relationship with, and then eventually close the deal. It's not just talking the same scripts or the same robotic questions and answers. It's about connecting on a human level.

13:52Dominka: Not just for the deal's sake. Actually really wanting to do something good for those people. In the end, you're happy when you close a deal. But you're probably not as happy when you close a deal for somebody where you know you didn't really do a good job, you kind of just sold it to them, and you don't feel right about it. You want to feel right about yourself at the end of the day, right?

14:13Josip: Yes. The reason why I went into real estate is the fact that you owe your clients those fiduciary duties, so you are working in their best interests. That's what pulled me to real estate, because I don't want to do sales just to do sales. I want to actually help someone. If you're part of somebody's happiness and somebody's wealth or whatever it is, for me personally that's very big. That's the biggest reward for me. It's very rewarding to see someone happy, purchasing their first home or selling their home for a higher amount than what they expected, or buying their investment property, building wealth and investing in their future and their kids' future. That's really what makes this job so attractive to me.

15:33Dominka: Very nice. We talked about B2C now, where you actually cold call people who either want to sell or buy, or move into a retirement home. But is it the same with B2B clients? That's something you do as well, because you have both clients and partners you want to partner with. Is it the same number of touchpoints?

15:59Josip: Very good question. It is not. When you are pitching someone who is a business or a business partner, or how we call it, a community partner, when you pitch them an idea or you're trying to partner up with someone, then it's definitely much less. It's probably one to two points before you actually schedule an appointment to discuss ways to partner up, or any type of sponsorship that can be put in place that is going to benefit both yourself and the other business. So I would say one to two touchpoints to book that first appointment, a one-on-one meeting. And then, again, you're building that relationship, because the reason business development or outreach in, let's say, retirement home living is important is that you get a lot of referrals. And referrals are more important and more valuable than a high quantity of leads.

17:22Dominka: Okay, what kind of referral are you referring to right now, in those homes? Was it companies you were calling where people were working? Or was it, I don't know, the local supermarket, where they put some goodies for the old people with your name on them?

17:44Josip: Literally everything. Any type of business can potentially be your referral. Which doesn't mean that you're not going to focus on a specific type of business. Let's say you're working in sales at a retirement home: obviously your focus is going to be on hospitals, doctors' offices, physiotherapy clinics, dental clinics, the medical field.

Dominka: Where old people are.

18:21Josip: Exactly. But it doesn't exclude other types of businesses, like financial planners or financial advisors, real estate agents. There's that potential, because a referral can come literally from anywhere, as you said, even from a grocery store. So you always welcome those community partners if they reach out to you, but you're not going to focus on reaching out to those. You're going to focus on something that is more within your circle. I would say number one: hospitals and doctors' offices.

19:19Dominka: Okay. And in the real estate business, who do you partner with in that case?

19:27Josip: There are lots of different businesses you can partner up with. The most common type of business person you would partner up with is obviously a mortgage agent, a mortgage broker, I should say. But then again, insurance people, like an insurance salesperson, or again a financial planner or adviser, lawyers. I mean, divorce lawyers even. So there's lots of potential in those types of relationships to get referrals.

20:19Dominka: Good. So I guess the conversion rate is much higher than with B2C in your case. What's more satisfying for you: the B2C part, or the B2B part with outreach to potential partners?

20:38Josip: I cannot say, because I love both. Maybe a little bit B2C, because you are actually working for that person. But B2B is just as important, because when you connect with that business partner or community partner and you really hit it off, you have the same type of mindset or the same interests, you just click as human beings, or you become friends with that person, that's also very satisfying, because it's more fun to work that way. You can reach out to this person and say, let's just brainstorm, let's see where they're at, where I'm at, and exchange information, exchange data.

21:43Dominka: Okay. Another very, very important question for me. We over here in Europe, especially we who work on the EU market or the DACH region, which is Germany, Austria and Switzerland: Austria especially is very strict. When we talk about cold calling, you actually cannot really do that over there unless you have a direct phone number which you got from a really reliable source. In Germany it's the same. B2C is almost impossible if the number is not on some kind of list you purchased from a really reliable source. We don't do B2C, so that's not a big concern. But in B2B, you're always in a grey zone if you're not calling the central number and trying to get to some decision maker. You cannot get there quickly, you don't have direct phone numbers, and if you have a direct phone number, you have to be sure that you got it from a really reliable source. Cold emailing especially is a really, really dangerous thing to do over here in Europe. What's the situation back in Canada or the US? In Canada, do you cold email, do you cold call whoever you want?

23:13Josip: Yes. When it comes to businesses, I can literally reach out to any type of business. Whether or not they're going to respond to you, that's a different story. But you can literally reach out to any type of business where you think there's a potential of partnering up or doing some sort of partnership or sponsorship.

23:43Josip: But I would say, if you want to be really successful in making sure that you are getting a response, that you are getting somewhere with that future business partner or future community partner, it's to do networking. I did a lot of networking in both fields. It's always that direct conversation with the person, live, exchanging business cards, talking about what you do and how you can help each other. I think attending business networking events is a really great way to do business, because you are standing in front of that person, explaining who you are and what you do. Because nowadays, you know how many scams are out there, so people are very cautious. They're not going to jump right away. They'll either bother to do a little bit of research before they get back to you, or they won't even bother to do any research. So yeah, I would say networking events.

25:31Josip: But coming back to your question: I can literally reach out to any business.

Dominka: So there are no restrictions? You could definitely...

25:44Josip: No, there are. There are restrictions with reaching out to private people. There is a thing called CASL. Basically, you need to ask for consent. So if they are on the list of private people who are open to being called, then you can call them. If they don't give consent, you cannot. But mostly we would focus on our internal lists of contacts, which are basically people who inquired at some point in the last five, ten years.

Dominka: That's the safest option.

26:30Josip: Yeah, that's the safest option. And then you just filter through. That's why it's good to do a large number of calls: to filter through and eliminate those people who are not anywhere near doing any type of business or deal with you whatsoever. Either they passed away...

Dominka: Okay.

27:03Josip: It's part of life. Or they moved out of the country, or they settled in long-term care, or whatever. So you can basically help yourself not to waste time on those leads: just filter through, keep the leads that are still workable, and eliminate and deactivate those that don't have value for you.

27:39Dominka: So you basically have a white list, but you don't have a blacklist of people. People who are not on the white list, you cannot call, is that right? In B2C, you have to be on that list of people who say: "Hey, it's okay if telemarketing calls me." If they're not on the list, you're actually doing...

27:59Josip: No, you can't. You'd be doing something illegal. You're not allowed to call someone who didn't give their consent. If they inquire, or if they give you even verbal consent that they are interested in your product or whatever you're selling, then you are allowed.

28:30Dominka: Does it happen that somebody gets sued because they called somebody who wasn't on the list?

28:36Josip: To be honest, I don't know. But I think there are some cases. Obviously, maybe it's even hard to get to a phone number if they're not on the list. You wouldn't be able to get to their phone number. But what I can think of is, let's say, your neighbor. You give your neighbor's contact to some business, thinking you're going to help that business, because you know your neighbor is looking to purchase X, Y, Z. You think you're helping. But if this neighbor of yours hasn't inquired and reached out to that business directly, or isn't on the list of people who are okay with businesses reaching out to them and cold calling them, then you're in trouble.

29:38Dominka: Yeah, because in Europe, somebody can literally sue you if you send an email with their personal data in it, like my first and last name, and you don't have consent, a verbal consent or whatever. Double opt-in, as we call it. You're literally doing something illegal and you can be sued.

30:01Josip: Same there. Same situation there.

30:04Dominka: Even with businesses, not just private people. If I have the direct email address of a CEO of a company, I kind of know that this might be his email address, but nobody really told me: "Yes, you can send an email there."

30:20Josip: Well, when you're sending an email to a business, it always helps to do a quick introduction. I might have been, I don't know, the fifth sales manager in that specific company. But you can always send a quick intro saying: "Hello, I'm so-and-so. I started this position a few months ago, or last year, or whatever. You've been on our referral contact list for X amount of years, and I'm simply reaching out to see if you're still interested in partnering up with us, and if you're open to connect and discuss ways of doing business together."

31:18Dominka: Okay. Another question about similarities or differences: CRM systems. What do you use over there? We use a lot of Pipedrive, Salesforce, HubSpot. Do you even know those names?

31:32Josip: Yes, HubSpot. Actually, we used HubSpot. We've switched to a different CRM now, which I can't remember the name of. But yeah, I used HubSpot, and I'm familiar with one more. So those are the CRM systems I used in my sales.

31:55Dominka: And do you use softphones on your computer, or do you use your cell phone for cold calling?

32:02Josip: For real estate, you use your cell phone. But when I was working in inside sales, for example, I would use software where you connect through the company's main number. So you are basically calling from that number or texting from that number to a client.

32:30Dominka: Okay, good. That's interesting to know, because of those three softwares I was talking about, HubSpot is a European software, I think.

Josip: I don't know, to be honest.

Dominka: I have to check, but I think it's from Europe.

Josip: Might be.

32:47Dominka: Another question, and then we're going over to our game time. How far is AI coming into Canadian cold calling? Are there restrictions for outreach with AI? Is it possible to have AI agents who call or reach out to people, or is that forbidden? In Europe you cannot do that, and we're happy about it, because I think it will ruin the market and the personal touch and everything we try to build with our business. But I'm not sure whether it's something that's coming in through the back door over there, or is it already there?

33:34Josip: As for AI, I've seen a lot of AI coming into the business. Lots of different companies are now exploring at least some form of AI cold calling or cold texting or whatever you want to call it, whether or not they're successful with it, because as with any technology, there are glitches. Honestly, I don't know what the future is going to look like. But to your question: there are no restrictions. So companies are switching over to AI. I have seen a lot of inside sales teams and call centers shutting down completely. There were a lot of layoffs in a lot of companies when it comes to customer care, whatever you want to call it, which is unfortunate and devastating to see, because companies thought AI is the future, AI is going to save money, they're going to get more value for their buck. Which I'm not seeing, honestly.

Dominka: Okay.

35:14Josip: I'm not seeing that at all, because in the end we are all still humans. I'm talking from my personal experience: when I call any type of business or company, I want to talk to a live person.

Dominka: Yeah, we still do.

35:45Josip: You know how many times you find yourself stuck on the answering machine, pressing 3 for more information, 4 for whatever, and you don't get actual information? You get frustrated, you give up. There's no better way to explain it: you just walk away from that company, business, whatever it is, if you cannot connect with a live person. Because I think people still don't trust the computers.

36:37Dominka: We trust them less and less, but we still give a lot of our independence over to them.

36:41Josip: Yeah. I mean, obviously it's a very helpful tool to help with the business. But use it in a smart, intelligent way. Don't let it take over that part of the business, the client care. Which is very scary: giving someone that much responsibility or liability.

Dominka: Scary, and a little bit cheap.

Josip: Yes, yes.

37:20Dominka: It's not on that level. It might be very soon, but still, you really just want to be there and talk to a person, and maybe argue with a person, not with a machine.

37:32Josip: Yeah. I think a lot of companies do some sort of combination. There are softwares that pretty much pre-schedule: an inquiry comes in, and they pre-schedule emails, text messages and calls, which helps the live person who is still behind the computer with the headphones to make the call when it's time to do that scheduled call.

38:12Dominka: Another thing that popped into my mind: real estate. You haven't sold real estate in Europe, but you do sometimes make a bit of a comparison in quality, in prices, in locations. Give us a quick overview of what you can get in Canada for a price, compared to some European countries or to Croatia, where you have really attractive locations like the seaside. A condo in Toronto and a beach house in Croatia: is that the same price, or is it so much more expensive over there?

38:52Josip: I think Europe is slowly reaching the Canadian prices and Canadian markets. What I've seen in the past few years is that the numbers are just going through the roof, which happened in Canada especially during COVID. Now the market is slowly coming down. There's a lot of inventory, especially in new developments and condos. So the market is tough, and nobody actually knows what's going to happen. We can only predict. But here, looking at prices of condos and houses, I would say pretty comparable. A few years ago, not so much: you could probably sell a million-dollar house in Canada, move here and buy the same square footage and the same type of property for three, four times less. But now it's leveling out.

40:25Dominka: Bad news for those who want to move to Europe. Maybe good news for those who want to sell in Europe.

40:39Dominka: Good. Game time! I have a couple of sentences prepared for you. In our episodes, we always end our conversation with a little bit of game time. The game today is called "Canadian Sales: Yes or No". I'm going to give you a couple of situations, and you tell me whether that's something you would do as a Canadian salesperson, or you'd rather stay away from it.

Josip: Or offer an alternative.

Dominka: Or you can give me an alternative, that's right. Okay, first one: opening the call with a friendly joke.

41:36Josip: Unless you know that person.

Dominka: So you wouldn't do that. Maybe on the twelfth touchpoint?

41:44Josip: Maybe, yes. The first time, no. You don't know the person. I think it's kind of annoying. It's stepping over that line of becoming obnoxious.

Dominka: Yeah, that's right. That's what we were talking about.

42:05Dominka: Okay: calling on weekends, because people are home.

42:09Josip: Yes. Obviously not all businesses work on weekends, but clients and customers, yes.

Dominka: Are they rather annoyed, or is it fine?

42:26Josip: They are not annoyed, when there was an inquiry. There's a lot of value in speed to lead. Let's say an inquiry comes in late at night on Friday. You are calling that person first thing the next morning, if possible. Obviously life gets in the way, so sometimes it doesn't happen right in the morning. But you also need to keep in mind that it's someone's Saturday, so you're not calling at eight or nine a.m., maybe ten, eleven-ish. And it's always good to start with a text message first, just to check if they're available. Most of the time, when they see your text message, they will call you directly right away, knowing this person is now available. But sometimes they'll just text back and say: "Hey, now is not the right time, but call me around lunchtime," or "call me in the afternoon," which is great. At least you have some sort of commitment that you are connecting with that person.

Dominka: Even Sundays?

Josip: Even Sundays.

43:59Dominka: If they send an inquiry on Saturday, you call them on Sunday? Or text them and see whether they're fine with it?

44:04Josip: Yeah, you would maybe text them first and see where they're at. If you don't get a response, then you call them on Monday.

44:18Dominka: When you cold call, is it pitching with a fast, high-energy tone? That's something we see in movies, so we always think that across the ocean, they all call like in The Wolf of Wall Street.

44:34Josip: Yeah, there are those kinds of calls. But me personally, I don't do that sort of thing.

Dominka: You rather adjust to the person, right?

44:45Josip: Yes, yes. You're a human being, after all. So you're having a nice, friendly conversation, maybe about something not related to what you're selling. That casual talk is going to build the relationship and build trust. Because as long as you connect with that person on a bit of a personal level, they start trusting you more, and they are interested to hear what you have to offer. So it's not a robotic "Hello, I'm so-and-so, there's a promotional price going on right now, blah, blah, blah." It's more like: "Hey, how is it going? It's a rainy day outside," whatever, a bit of small talk.

Dominka: And keep it simple.

Josip: Keep it simple, you know.

45:59Dominka: Leaving long voicemails explaining your offer: yes or no?

46:06Josip: No. You do leave a voicemail, but rather a short one, just explaining who you are and the reason for your call, and inviting them, encouraging them to give you a callback to get more information, because that's the key. When you say everything in that voicemail, either they don't listen to it till the end and just click the delete button, or they listen to the whole message, and it limits what you can talk about, because they think: oh, he just called me because of a specific promotion or price adjustment. But there's so much more to talk about when you actually connect with them on the phone, because you can ask them questions. It's important to listen and to ask questions, to do that discovery, as we call it, to see which way you can help someone. Maybe they're not selling their property at this moment, but maybe they're looking for an investment property: okay, I can help you with that. So that leads to another conversation, another set of appointments, another set of showings.

47:35Dominka: Okay. On weekdays, 8 a.m. in the morning: yes or no?

47:41Josip: No. People are getting ready to go to work, or they're driving, or they're dropping off their kids at daycare.

47:52Dominka: Especially in Canada, because getting to work and coming home usually takes an hour or even more.

Josip: Yeah, sometimes even more.

Dominka: Here it's half an hour, I guess.

48:08Josip: No, I think Europe is getting crowded now. I've seen and heard of people traveling from, let's say...

Dominka: That's right, because a lot of people move out of the city.

48:25Josip: Yeah. But to answer your question: no to the 8 a.m. call. I think the best time to call is around lunchtime, because people are free, and around four, when they're winding down. They're not in their role fully, they're slowly signing off, logging off and getting ready to leave.

49:09Dominka: And for B2B calls, the same? Or whatever?

49:13Josip: For B2B, no. Any time...

Dominka: ...but not during lunchtime, I guess, because they're at lunch.

Josip: Yeah, I guess the opposite.

Dominka: Same as here.

49:23Dominka: Good. Last one: using a script word for word. But do you have a script? Did you ever make a script?

49:36Josip: I did. I made a lot of scripts, but a script is there just to guide you, to give you a little bit of cues, a bit of help and guidance on what to ask. But obviously every single answer is going to be different. Not everyone is going to answer the same way. There are going to be all sorts of people you're going to talk to, and they're going to mention something that is completely outside your script. And if you're just looking at the script, going by your script, you're just like "uh-huh", and there's no flow. The nice flow of the conversation is gone, and then you lose that person. So it's important to have some sort of guidance, just like you did: you had a list of questions, but you did not stick to them completely. You were listening to what I was saying, and you had another set of questions, follow-up questions, right?

50:54Dominka: I've been in sales for around nine years now.

Josip: Well, it shows.

Dominka: That's something you'd expect from somebody with a career like mine.

51:08Josip: Yeah. No, you guys are doing an amazing job. You guys have been here for almost a decade.

Dominka: Even more, because the company is a couple of years older than that. Like two.

Josip: Amazing. You guys do amazing work here, and congratulations on being in the business for over a decade. It's a big thing.

51:32Dominka: I think so too. Thanks for recognizing that. We're at the end of our forty-first episode. I'm really glad you were our guest, and I'm really glad I heard a bit more about your job, because mostly we talk about private stuff. Now we're talking business, which is really interesting, to get a glimpse into it. And what I'm really happy about is that the difference is not as big as I thought it would be. I would have said: a lot of high-pitched calls, 20 calls a minute, dialing, dialing, dialing and stuff like that, because that was in my mind. That was my mindset towards the other side of the globe, where people do a lot of aggressive calling. But now I see that it's not really like that, that you still have a lot of similarities with us over here: we just want to create those relationships, and then of course, in the end, close the deal. Of course you want that, because we need the money, we need the deals, we need it for our ego, we need it for learning new stuff and becoming better, and for just being motivated in the end. You're not going to get super motivated if you have 100 calls with nice people and you never sell anything. I mean, come on.

52:55Josip: You learn from your failures and from your mistakes. I think that's the best education.

Dominka: I think so too. And then the success that happens after that, you can really enjoy.

53:15Josip: It's more rewarding, right. But yeah, it was hard not to take things personally, right at the beginning when you start doing sales. You're like: "Oh my God, I'm not good at this."

Dominka: But you're only not good at sales if you stop doing it. You just have to go on, and that's it.

53:44Josip: And I would say a really smart salesperson is going to be most active in the most quiet time of the year, of the market. That's the time when you need to focus on your clients and your customers the most, because it's going to help you in the future, when things do get better. You're going to be the first person they reach out to, because you were there when there was nothing to sell or nothing to buy, when the market was not good. So it's important.

54:29Dominka: It's a persistence game. I remember a lot of our clients telling us: "Hey, you were there. You were still not giving up and calling back and seeing whether we were ready. At some point we were ready." And that's it. You need that point when people are ready. You always have to be ready for people to be ready.

Josip: Yeah, exactly.

54:50Dominka: Perfect. Thank you so much for being here. I think we've put together a really nice set of thoughts, brainstorming and questions. Hopefully see you again next year, another time.

55:03Josip: I would be very honored to be here twice or more times.

Dominka: Next time I'm going to call you to come over here, not you calling me to be a guest.

Josip: Thank you, I appreciate that.

55:16Dominka: That's it. To summarize: Canada and Europe, or the DACH region, are quite similar in the end. There are a couple of restrictions that are a bit more strict over here, but in the end, it's people selling to people, and people buy from people. And that's the game, nothing else. Everybody who was watching, thanks a lot for being here. This was my guest today, Josip Podrug from Canada, a real estate agent.

Josip: Thank you.

55:49Dominka: Follow us on YouTube, follow us on LinkedIn. We are there, and you can always watch each and every episode. We now also have English subtitles, so you can understand everything. Share, comment, whatever you want to do. If you don't want to do that, don't. But connect with us on LinkedIn, and I'll be happy.

56:15Josip: Thank you so much for having me here. It was a pleasure, honestly.

Dominka: That's it. Bye-bye.