BDR — the Star of Sales

3:48Dominka: What are we going to talk about today? I've already announced it briefly, but we have three segments that we'd like to go through. The first is: the BDR, star of sales. The second thing we'll talk about: how to go from a good to a great BDR. And the third topic rounds it off: The BDR is the key figure in lead qualification. Just going back briefly for everyone who's listening for the first time: I'd like to explain a few terms. Lead generation, lead qualification and lead closing. I'd say that's more or less the whole process in sales, or rather in business development. If you now had to distribute lead generation, lead qualification and lead closing within your team that works on a project: Who would be responsible for which thing? Who does lead generation, who does lead qualification and who does the closing?

5:07Martin: Well, lead generation and lead qualification are of course done by the BDRs and SDRs, because they're the ones on the phone, and the closing of the deals and leads is ultimately done, of course, by the account executive.

5:20Dominka: Okay. And you're, so to speak, the person who actually keeps looking over everything and is involved in all the segments?

5:28Martin: In principle, yes. I'm always in the background, looking at how we actually go through these processes.

5:33Dominka: You just meddle in everything.

5:35Martin: Yes, that's how you have to do it.

5:36Dominka: And that's a good thing. But I'd say I'd actually push lead generation back to the project manager. After all, they're the one who actually created the lists and looks at where to look. And the qualification itself, I mean quite directly and almost entirely alone, is actually done by the SDR, the BDR.

Martin: Exactly.

5:59Dominka: Okay, then let's rather talk about lead qualification and about what the good SDR and BDR has to do in sales. What is the SDR's role in the sales process?

6:17Martin: Well, the SDRs actually have the task of finding the right person, meaning the decision-maker in the company, because ultimately they're the one with the decision-making power to buy the service or the product. And when we find the right person, that you of course also learn the decision-maker's pain points, so that you can then see: Is the time ripe for the sale or not yet?

6:43Dominka: Okay. If you look at the career path of people in sales: They very often start out as SDRs and, after a while, very often grow into a different role, whether they want to or maybe not. But what you definitely have to say: Someone who closes deals can, in my opinion, never really do them well if they didn't start out that way themselves or aren't still actively working as an SDR or in business development themselves.

7:28Martin: Definitely. You always have to reach for the headset, and of course you also have to get and keep the overview: of the market, of the people, of your Ideal Customer Profiles, and you always have to be involved in the whole process.

7:46Dominka: So operationally the BDR, the SDR, stands right at the very front and is actually the person on the front line.

Martin: Exactly.

7:53Dominka: Maybe a small difference between those who work completely cold leads and those who, you could say, work MQLs. If you think of a project where you maybe had MQLs at some point, and one where you really worked with completely cold leads: Can you draw a small distinction or a small parallel there?

8:21Martin: Well, in principle the MQLs are a bit warmed up, so to speak, because they already have a bit of info about what the company does, or maybe they already know something about the product. And with cold calling, you really start cold. You don't have a name, you only have the number of the company's switchboard and then have to fight your way through all the structures within a company. But with the MQLs you at least already know the person's name and of course the company too. And you can already guess: Okay, there might already be some interest there.

8:59Dominka: But I'd also like to mention once more for everyone that the MQLs really are very, very often a deception. All of us who are in sales know that, I think: that very often you simply have just as much work with them as with completely cold leads. Sometimes even more, because you notice: Okay, maybe they downloaded a white paper here, they signed up for a webinar there. But in the end it's always the same back and forth until you even get through to the person. Every now and then there's also a number in there that then maybe isn't quite right. And even though the person signed up somewhere, that doesn't mean they'll be reachable tomorrow just because you've now had the idea of calling them. And with both, cold, warm or lukewarm calls, you have to say: There's a lot, a lot of preparation involved and a lot, a lot of follow-up work. Not only that you have to write it down somewhere and log it, but every now and then you also have to work through it a bit for yourself, whether it's pleasant or unpleasant. Especially the good calls, you have to follow up on those too.

10:20Dominka: Maybe you can say a bit more about the process and explain why, even though in the hierarchy you'd say: Okay, an SDR or a BDR is just the first step in sales, you still have to say very, very openly and honestly: They're the stars in sales. And not the ones who will later just close it. If it isn't well prepared, then the likelihood that someone closes it will actually be much lower too, right?

10:55Martin: Definitely, yes. As you already said, the SDRs are actually on the front line. That means they know what the situation in the market is, with the people, with the companies, what the reasons are why someone isn't interested. When someone says on the phone that they have no interest, then that's really the chance to find out right at the beginning: Okay, is it the market, is it the product, so is the price not right, or are there maybe some features that the competition has and our product or service doesn't? And there it's really the SDR who can find all that out at the beginning. And depending on the feedback, the whole team can actually coordinate really well.

11:47Dominka: Tell me, if you think about an SDR's tasks: What's the thing they definitely have to do? And what are the tasks … I'm so relaxed here on this stool now. What are the tasks where they should really say: I have to delegate this to someone else who helps me with it, so that I don't waste any time? So maybe also with regard to the structure, how it works at OB2B, with our business development trio: the BDR or SDR, the project lead and you as quality assurance manager. Which tasks shouldn't the BDR do, so that they can focus on their actual tasks? And the other way round: Where shouldn't the project lead or the quality assurance manager interfere, so that it goes well?

12:55Martin: Definitely. Or goes optimally. Well, the project manager should definitely pick out the right contacts. That means the right companies, which go into the list according to the criteria we've filled in. Ideally, of course, we'd also find out the contact persons in the company in advance, so that the SDR or BDR can address them directly on the calls and doesn't lose time at the switchboard finding out the right department or the right contact person within the company. Definitely these two parts. As for the other things: There the project manager or I can of course help too. I of course listen to the calls and can then, for example, also suggest questions you can ask on the phone, so that you really draw the person into the conversation and of course can also find out useful information from the call.

13:59Martin: Because in the end, anyone can hold a conversation. So that's the smallest problem, so to speak.

14:06Dominka: You think?

14:07Martin: A conversation, not a sales conversation, but really just a conversation. I mean, anyone can ask about the weather, or anyone can, for example, ask about someone's state of mind at the moment, but not everyone can ask the right questions at the right time and of course also listen. We talked about that in the previous episode too. Listening is always really very important in sales and in selling, because then you can ask the right questions, then you can mention the right USPs, arguments or something similar on the phone. And in the end you can then also find out the reason why someone has no interest, and whether it's really legitimate. Because I can always say: "Yeah, I have no time, I have no interest, nah, that's too expensive for me." But if, for example, you didn't tell me in your pitch or in the conversation how much it costs, and I say it's too expensive for me, then you should actually react: I didn't even tell Mr Müller how much we cost.

15:11Dominka: Good, there you're already touching on the second segment, namely excellence, or rather: What really distinguishes a BDR who's maybe only taking the first steps and isn't completely confident yet from someone who's really already rock-solid, a BDR, an SDR, who says: Hey, I'll take on any task, no matter how unpleasant, I'll do it anyway?

15:44Martin: Exactly, for sales you do have to be a bit brave. Definitely. And dare to say something wrong now and then, to do something wrong now and then, to try something new now and then. You really have to allow yourself to make mistakes and learn something from them. As for the SDRs and BDRs who are really excellent: I can remember my own days when I started out. You always think: Aha, I have to say everything I know about the product, about the service, on the phone, and then it'll surely lead to a sale. But never. Actually, the trick is that the contact person, meaning the decision-maker, spends most of the call telling me something. So my role on the phone, meaning the role of the SDR, should actually be that they're the moderator of the conversation.

16:41Dominka: Yes, I think so too. I've had calls myself that maybe didn't lead to much and that were rather really pleasant calls, where I myself learned something new. I still let them run, left them in my pipeline and went back to them every now and then, even though I thought: Yeah, this maybe isn't the opportunity I should doggedly stick with right now. But in fact it turned out that I learned a lot from these calls, and that later I simply had a person on the other side who understands something about sales and who maybe isn't interested at the moment in doing something with us or with the client we're currently doing the prospecting for. But that helped me enormously. And where I immediately thought nothing would come of it anyway, every now and then something even did come of it. They got back in touch later and said: "Hey, you actually did that quite well. We liked that quite a lot. Maybe we can give it another try after all", or: "Let's just see whether we can come together after all", after quite a long time.

17:57Martin: They came back again, yes.

17:59Dominka: Exactly. I think that's then always one of those things where you go beyond yourself, that really lifts you from your first step up to, let's say, your best pitch on the phone. Where you yourself say: Okay, I've transformed the whole thing differently for myself.

18:27Dominka: How often do you notice, with us or in coaching, that the change does come, or how quickly does it come? I think it actually always comes somehow. It's not like someone stays the same from the first call to the seventh project.

18:48Martin: Nah. I'd say it also depends a lot on the projects, because on some projects you already have a structure that works, where you don't have to come up with anything new, and it works fine like that. But of course there are also projects where it works for a while, and then you notice: Okay, we've reached a plateau, so to speak, and now we have to come up with something new so that we move forward and keep making progress. As for the people: At the beginning it's of course a bit stagnant, not necessarily something bad, but you simply have to learn first how to conduct the conversations and what the sales process ultimately looks like. And only when you grasp these things and get out of this mindset of "I have to know everything" and start being curious on the phone and asking questions that may or may not lead to a sale, then you really see the click in the head (when it finally clicks). And then you notice: Okay, the conversations are going much better now, I mean more smoothly. And I think that's when the BDRs and SDRs also feel comfortable on the phone and in the whole sales process.

20:10Dominka: Yes, freeing the sales soul, really letting it play a bit. Not always just being focused on closing a deal, but simply: Today I'll just go in and do my thing. Because it really is the case that you don't close it overnight. At least we don't do it that way, and I think most of the people who work in the industries we work in don't either. We don't want to force a meeting for our partners, we want to prepare it in such a way that they then know: Okay, the person who's now coming to the meeting is well prepared. We're well prepared and know what they want from us.

Martin: Exactly.

20:56Dominka: And you as the SDR know: This is a good opportunity, and now sales, the field sales team or whoever takes it over simply has to carry on where I've laid a foundation. And that's what really makes you the star, one who maybe gets lost in the shuffle every now and then, because of course it's not nice when someone else closes the deal and just keeps it for themselves. But we do have to say that our partners actually share it with us and celebrate when it comes to a close. And that in turn helps the person who set up the meeting or qualified the lead: Hey, I'm doing this well. Very often you think: Hm, maybe this isn't a lead I should keep going with at all. Maybe I need a bit longer with this one. Maybe everyone is impatient now and wants it to work a bit faster, but it simply can't be done in a hurry. And that's something you always have to take with you in this whole story. You can really only close when there's a foundation showing that it's something valuable and not just something far-fetched. We don't want to set meetings like that at all. And I think that's also not something everyone plays along with, right?

22:16Martin: Definitely. They simply have to see the added value in the service and in the product, so that in the end they're also ready to buy something.

22:25Dominka: Okay. So the BDR is definitely the key figure in qualifying leads.

Martin: Definitely.

22:33Dominka: Why is a strong BDR crucial for this role, or rather, what does it even mean, from your point of view, to be a strong SDR or BDR? Is it someone who brings in a lot of meetings? Is it someone who creates new opportunities for themselves day in, day out? Is it someone who simply works consistently as a matter of principle?

22:59Martin: I'd say it's really someone who always sticks with it, who doesn't give up. As you said yourself: The process can be really short or of course very long. With some you get to the decision-maker in the very first call. Sometimes it takes 20 calls with the switchboard to find the right contact person. And I think that's where persistence really is a kind of key to being a successful BDR.

23:29Dominka: But by persistent we don't mean that they should pester anyone, but that they stick with it, so that out of 100 contacts they really go after all 100.

Martin: Exactly.

23:41Dominka: And not somehow think: Oh, I don't find this one charming at all. I don't like the company name. The person somehow has a weird name. My ex-boyfriend is called Holger, I'm not calling him, and so on, you know? So definitely, even if you think this maybe isn't something I find super cool right now, do it anyway.

Martin: Exactly.

24:06Dominka: But when you do get to the decision-maker, and that's actually the key to the task, talking to the right person: What does a good BDR need to be able to do? Where do they show themselves to be a star?

24:19Martin: Well, once again in the pitch, in the questioning and of course also in objection handling. You really have to master these three things well, I mean not just well, but really very well, so that you can always get everything out of the calls, I mean out of the conversations.

24:42Dominka: Okay. When would you say it's a failed attempt?

24:52Martin: When you just settle for it when someone says: "Yes, we'll talk again" or "Just send an email, we'll get in touch if we need anything", or says: "We're not interested", and I say: "Okay."

25:04Dominka: Yes, when you don't even try …

25:06Martin: Exactly, when you don't try to continue the conversation, to at least arrange a follow-up, or don't always leave it at these emails or at this "Yes, we'll talk" or "There's no interest". Nah, ask the questions. Ask the questions, because nothing bad can really happen.

25:25Dominka: You know what I'd also totally feel was a defeat in conversations like that? When you let yourself be intimidated very quickly, but afterwards you know yourself: I could actually have had that under control. For example, there are often people who have an attitude where they simply act dominant towards someone, because they've just been called, or because they're the ones being talked at. And I think it's okay if you simply stay polite and then try to get out of the call, because you notice this is really very unpleasant now. But I myself always saw that as a bit of a defeat too, because I thought: If I allow it every time that someone just comes at me arrogantly, without letting me finish or without giving me the chance to maybe develop a bit differently in the call … Then I always felt as if I shouldn't put up with it like that. And I actually always saw that as a bit of a defeat. Should you do that?

26:43Martin: I think it's a personal thing, I have to admit. For me personally it was always the case that I assume: If someone wants to talk to me, they know I'm a human being. I make mistakes too. They of course make mistakes too. But when I then see this discrepancy between my attitude and the other person's, that there's really no respect behind the whole thing … I mean, someone can of course be respectful and dominant. But if someone is a bit rude and has no respect for me while I'm doing my job on the phone, then I have to admit I also don't feel like talking to that person any further, without doing anything more. I mean, I of course then try to find out something from the call, so that I at least send the email and then do a follow-up. I like the whole process. But if it really doesn't work, then I think: Okay, you don't want to be my partner, then I definitely don't want to be your partner either.

27:52Dominka: Would you in that situation try to, this person … If you've noticed that they weren't nice, they weren't receptive at all, but you notice that you're the one who, as the SDR, maybe didn't fully come out of your shell: Would you still go after a lead like that again after a while, or would you just let it lie?

28:15Martin: No, I'd definitely try again, as I said. I mean simply check in again in a week or after a few days or maybe after a month, because of course we're human, we all have bad days. Maybe it really wasn't anything personal that was aimed at me, or something like that. So I'd definitely try again, but of course it depends on the situation. Sometimes it's a week, sometimes a few months, maybe a year, or even better: I find an alternative decision-maker in the company.

28:48Dominka: You know what I always … Now in, let's say, the end role here as account executive, when I take over this part and hopefully close the deals from the meetings that our SDRs set up (we do the prospecting for ourselves, too; every now and then something comes in on its own, but more often it's through our activities), then what annoys me most is when someone comes into the meeting with questions that I know have surely already been answered, and then somehow comes in arrogant, because they actually weren't paying attention at all. As I said, not somehow about prices or anything, but actually about very concrete philosophical stances that we have as a company. And then I have to say quite openly, then I'm more the person who tries to defend the company's colors. And I'm definitely there thinking: Okay, I know that the person who qualified the lead for me really did a good job. Now you listen carefully to what we actually do. I think that's always a good attitude too: When someone has already got to the second step and wants a meeting, that you then don't always have to treat the client like a king straight away, especially when he or she tries to belittle someone with a question. That's then, I'd say, the point where you definitely shouldn't allow that, not in the first call either, definitely not. But maybe as a first step you try to make yourself a bit small and then rise above the whole thing, so that the meeting then really turns out well.

30:39Dominka: Martin, I have one more thing I'd like to clarify with you. When it comes to the BDR as the key figure, as the core figure in lead qualification: What are the soft skills that a BDR, an SDR … BDR, SDR, I couldn't care less what you call it, for me it's actually both the same. What are the soft skills you have to bring or learn to do the job well, so that the job can also be fun for you? Because when you look around, it's actually a job that's very much in demand. But I think the problem with it is that many people think: That's a job I can get into quickly, and then I'll do it for a while. And they simply don't take it to the excellence we talked about. So what are the soft skills that you have, that you bring, that you learn to be a good SDR? Does anything come to mind?

31:50Martin: Of course listening, adaptability, empathy, definitely also being curious. I mean, you should know how to get information and what information you need to look for. Yes, it's more a matter of character, but you do have to have a bit of drive.

Dominka: Okay.

32:23Martin: Be it in the voice … You have to be willing to behave like a human with the people on the phone a bit. Laugh a bit, tell a joke now and then, say now and then: "Oh, how clumsy of me" or "Yes, I need …"

32:39Dominka: Not taking this conversation so seriously. It doesn't matter now who's on the other end, that's just a person too, no matter whether it's a decision-maker. You don't necessarily have to go in with kid gloves and feel your way in gently?

Martin: Yes, definitely.

32:56Dominka: But really come across as human and really keep trying to get through. Not just to get through the switchboard, but to really reach the person, right? That's not easy.

33:13Dominka: But you know what else I think is important? It just occurred to me while we're talking: that you have a kind of shield that doesn't come across as arrogant when you feel attacked or get a rejection, but still a shield that the things you maybe don't find so pleasant bounce off. And that you then really don't take it so much to heart, because I think a lot of people fail at that. Then it gets hard for them, and then they think: This is a job I can't do, because I simply took it very much to heart. Although in a way you should take the job and the situation, and the fact that someone does it, a little to heart. It is a labor of love (German "Herzensarbeit", literally heart work). It's not work you just do like that, right?

34:01Martin: Right, yes. You do have to build yourself a kind of wall. I mean, that's not an attack on me as Martin or on me as Dominka or on anyone else. It's only an attack on me as the person who just called.

34:17Dominka: Yes, not even that. I'd say: Yeah okay, whatever. This afternoon I'm meeting my friends or watching something on Netflix. I'll get myself a nice ice cream. I'll go out to eat. I'll do some sport. I'll do my make-up really nicely, even though I have no plans at all. Simply forget it afterwards, do something else and tell yourself: Hey, okay, maybe I failed as an SDR today, on my own scale that I made up somewhere myself, or by the goals I set myself. But I'm still a great person who can come home, who'll maybe meet up with friends, who'll go somewhere, have fun or do something where she knows: I can still manage that. Or simply lie down, go to sleep and sleep on it.

35:11Martin: Anything goes.

35:13Dominka: Good, yes. So anything that lifts you back up and doesn't drag you even deeper into the hole, right. Or into prison.

35:30Dominka: Good, Martin, of course I've also been given a game by our Kim. She always goes to a lot of trouble to bring in a bit of fun for us at the end.

35:43Martin: Are we playing Twister?

35:44Dominka: No, we're not playing Twister. Sorry, we don't have anything like that, but we'd only have three colors anyway: black, blue and white. But here's what we do have: red flags.

36:00Martin: We like those.

36:03Dominka: We do like those. I haven't even looked at it yet. I hope there's nothing explicit in there. Knowing Kim as well as I do, it's probably still quite …

36:14Martin: Nah, I haven't seen it. But I think they're good.

36:18Dominka: Ah yes, you've already seen it. I don't believe you on that one. You read out situations from everyday BDR life. The guest has to say spontaneously: red flag or green flag, and why?

36:30Martin: Spontaneously.

36:32Dominka: Be more spontaneous than ever. Here goes: The BDR talks 90 percent of the call.

36:39Martin: Red flag.

Dominka: Why?

36:42Martin: Well, the BDR's job isn't to, the whole time on the phone … You have to …

36:50Dominka: … babble?

Martin: Yes, exactly. That's why it's a red flag.

36:55Dominka: That's why I'm not a BDR anymore. That's why I got fired. Yes, okay. Next situation: The lead says: "Send me an email."

37:12Martin: Oh, it can really be a red flag, but also a green flag. But I'd say now: If you don't arrange a follow-up with him after the email, then it's a red flag.

37:22Dominka: But what if he says: "Why don't you send me an email"?

37:30Martin: Green flag.

37:31Dominka: Yes, I'd say so too. The BDR didn't take any notes on the call.

37:36Martin: Red flag. Always log everything.

37:39Dominka: Yes, you sly fox. The lead laughs at the icebreaker.

37:45Martin: Basically it's a red flag, but you can take that laughter as a way into the conversation, where you can then really do everything better again.

37:59Dominka: Yes, but what if he finds it funny and likeable? That's how I would have understood it. You understood it as if he were laughing at you.

38:06Martin: Yes, exactly.

38:08Dominka: Yes, exactly, a way out instead of a way in. Then he says: "This opener, that was a direct exit." (wordplay: Einstieg = way in, Ausstieg = way out)

38:15Martin: I didn't know I was shooting an episode with Franjo now, but okay.

38:18Dominka: I picked up the dad jokes from Franjo. See? I wouldn't have said red flag there. I'd have said green flag.

38:31Martin: That's a mindset thing, yes.

38:33Dominka: I've got another one: The BDR follows a fixed call script, word for word.

38:38Martin: Red flag. You have to be adaptable.

38:41Dominka: No need to explain that at all. The lead talks more than the BDR in the conversation.

38:46Martin: Green flag, but you do have to know where you need to steer the call by the end.

38:51Dominka: Okay. The lead rants more than the BDR in the conversation.

38:55Martin: Green flag.

38:56Dominka: Definitely. The BDR relies completely on the CRM.

39:02Martin: Red flag. A good CRM is always a good thing, but you do have to do a bit yourself as well.

39:11Dominka: Yes. Because sometimes you get data from clients that's totally outdated, and then you struggle with it and ask: "Ah, is Mr Müller there?" "Mr Müller died three years ago."

39:22Martin: Exactly. Or on LinkedIn too. I mean, you really can see everything on LinkedIn. You can check everything again, more up to date.

39:27Dominka: True. A good BDR leaves the qualification to the sales team.

39:33Martin: Yes, red flag. We try not to do that.

39:36Dominka: Yes, like: "Hey, look, he's got a really nice car, you take this one."

39:44Dominka: The BDR apologizes for disturbing them.

39:47Martin: Yes, that's so controversial now. I'm not a fan of it. I personally tried it. It didn't really work for me, whether because of my personality or because of the project, but I was always a fan of: Don't do it. The answer you'll mostly get is: "I don't have time. You just called me. I'm in the middle of work. Leave me alone."

40:10Dominka: Yes. "Sorry to bother you." "Am I disturbing you?" "Are you in the middle of something?" "Are you doing something important right now?"

40:23Martin: "Are you working right now?"

40:24Dominka: But I find this one funny: "Are you doing something important right now? Because I have something totally unimportant that might become important one day, if you give me the time to explain it to you."

40:35Martin: Feel free to tell that to the girls in inside sales.

40:37Dominka: Will do. Try it out. I gave Valentina a pretty good tip on that recently. I don't know now whether she's used it yet, that needs to be checked. I don't remember anymore what the tip was. Okay, and: The BDR smiles while on the phone.

40:56Martin: Super green flag. Super. You simply feel better, you as a person, but of course also the person on the other end of the line.

41:07Dominka: That's it. I think we've once again discussed something that should maybe help someone a bit further. That's actually the goal of this podcast: that the people who tune in and maybe don't know much about sales yet, especially about pre-sales, which is what we mostly talk about, get a little idea of how they can do something better or how they can get started at all. And if they still think: Oh no, the SDR job, that's really only for the very greatest heroes in sales, for the superstars, then you can always try outsourcing it to us. Or elsewhere. But I can only recommend us. I don't know the others, after all. It's just like this: If I've been in the saddle here for nine years, then I just don't know how the others work. Probably quite well too. Maybe not as well as we do, but probably quite well. We of course hope that our audience liked what it's hearing here. Thanks for listening. Subscribe to our channel, get in touch on LinkedIn. We also have an Instagram profile. We're on TikTok too. Where else are we?

42:31Martin: Instagram …

42:33Dominka: Definitely on LinkedIn. On Spotify and definitely on YouTube. Take care.

Martin: See you. Thank you.

Dominka: Thank you, Martin.