The Customer Is NOT Always Right: Setting Boundaries in B2B Sales

2:54Dominka: Tell me, Nina, have you had situations where it was hard for you to tell the client: No, that doesn't work like that?

3:02Nina: I think at the beginning that was pretty difficult, but the whole team actually helped me there, and my colleagues who had already been working in this position a bit longer: simply how you can communicate it well. I think now it's not so hard, because I've also gained a bit more experience, and then maybe I can also recognise a bit earlier which of our clients reacts early with their own demands. You just learn that over time. I think I also simply had to build up my self-confidence on the projects. That's why it's maybe easier now.

3:43Dominka: Exactly. And then I think you also notice very quickly: It's not just a figure of speech when people say you mustn't put up with everything. It's something you have to stand firm on.

3:51Nina: Yes, and we always say we're partners. The client of course has their own opinion, but we have ours too, and that's why we're here, to advise them throughout the whole process. And in the end you always have to find a compromise, I'd say.

4:07Dominka: Exactly. Precisely because you're kind of the person in the middle, you should actually also have the kind of character where you can say to yourself: Okay, I don't have to be the little grey mouse who puts up with everything. But I mustn't be the arrogant witch who puts up with nothing either. Both are very dangerous.

4:33Nina: Exactly. So, we have our own company policy and things we do in a certain way and that we don't change. But there are also some things where we're quite flexible, and I'd say we also learn through our projects, and every project can be adapted somehow. We work in the DACH market, after all, but it's not the same whether we're working in Switzerland, in Austria or in Germany, and everything actually plays a role: also where our client comes from, what kind of product it is. I think that's why we always need a dose of flexibility.

5:15Dominka: Okay. I also find it very exciting, from my experience sometimes highly interesting, how much we've actually learned from our clients as well. Things we then pushed through ourselves too. But on the other hand, it's not something we'd often admit directly.

Nina: Could be.

5:48Dominka: Maybe you also learn that in hindsight. But the nice thing is also that you really always hear or see that you were able to teach the client a lot, because they go through this process with us: the presales preparation, the presales setup. Very often we built up the whole department, because they didn't have anything like that at all.

6:12Nina: We actually had the example from Anamarija recently, she was on the podcast recently too. On one of her projects, the client took our model of the whole department, how we do the presales part, and got in touch and said it now works much better for them. And things like that always make us happy. When we can inspire people to try something new like that, or when they say: Okay, you always use the CRM, now we want to use the same CRM too, because they've seen that it actually makes sense for them.

6:50Dominka: I think it always really annoys us extremely when the client, who actually has no idea how it's supposed to work, comes with demands to do it differently. And of course that's annoying. But sometimes they push so hard that I think it's much better to actually let them fall flat on their face and then say: Hey, let's do it this way and that way, rather than really stubbornly fighting against them implementing it the way they imagined. But they notice pretty quickly, don't they?

7:32Nina: Yes, I think those are the cases we like best. When they notice that quickly that it can actually work, telemarketing, and that it makes sense, and when we simply convince them after a certain time.

7:45Dominka: If it's not too dangerous to let the client push through with their own method, then you can do that sometimes, simply to be able to prove the opposite to them. Let them fall flat on their face. That's a good lesson too. But if we know nothing good will come of it, then we actually have to act fast and say: Okay, no, we're not doing it like that.

8:12Nina: Exactly. So, that can be because of our company policy, or we simply let the client see how we do it, what we do. We also have our reportings, we have the shared CRM, or rather the client always has access to the CRM too. They can see directly what the BDRs are doing there. And I think that actually also plays a role in the whole convincing.

8:38Dominka: Yes, exactly. The transparency you simply give them, where they think: There's no way they're revealing everything to us here. And then they see: Ah, okay, they really are like that. They're not hiding anything.

Nina: They're hard-working.

8:52Dominka: Yes, yes. Then they're also open to admitting: Yes, okay, let's do it that way. Of course good suggestions are always very welcome. Bad suggestions are of course sometimes tried out too. But then just …

Nina: To prove something.

9:09Dominka: Exactly. I've prepared questions, I really prepared for today. I'm going to ask you a few questions, and of course you're welcome to answer them. If you think you'd like to give the question back, you're always welcome to do that too. They may all seem a bit provocative, but I wouldn't directly say so. But they're about today's topic, that the customer actually shouldn't, in brackets, always be right. That's a topic, I think I grew up always hearing it: The customer is always right. And I always found that kind of stupid.

9:52Nina: But back then you were on the other side.

9:54Dominka: Yes, I was the customer. Good. When does client feedback stop being helpful and become a brake on real solutions?

10:05Nina: Maybe when it's too subjective. When the client says they know their industry, they know how people react, they say telemarketing really makes no sense in their field. Maybe they're doing it with us out of curiosity and don't really look at the whole project that objectively. And we simply show them how the whole thing runs. I think that maybe happens more at the beginning, when they're still a bit sceptical. Over time it naturally gets a bit easier. Do you agree?

10:39Dominka: Yes, I agree with you. But I'd also say that client feedback stops being helpful when the client simply thinks they can do it better, they understand it better, and we understand nothing about it.

11:01Nina: I'd say that's not often the case.

11:04Dominka: That's not often the case. But when that happens, then you also have to say: Okay, it's time to say goodbye. I think it's only then that it's no longer helpful, when you notice they imagined something else, they want it much faster, much less qualified …

11:26Nina: Also when they don't understand our work: why we do it this way and why there maybe aren't 10 meetings in one day.

11:40Dominka: The stupid thing about it is: You can actually recognise clients like that before they even become clients. If you haven't done that, then you make yourself an even bigger problem later.

11:53Nina: Yes, but you always stay a bit sceptical, and I think you always give people a chance.

11:58Dominka: Yes, yes, you always hope for the best. But hope isn't always everything. Okay.

12:04Dominka: How do you deal with it when a client seems to be right, but the data or processes contradict them?

12:14Nina: That's a difficult question. I had that recently.

Dominka: Really?

12:25Nina: I think it's a misunderstanding. Especially, I think, it's even harder for our BDRs, because they also see the numbers and know what they've done and what the numbers show. But maybe the client doesn't understand that so directly, and then it comes to a misunderstanding. But that hasn't happened to me too often, I have to say.

12:50Dominka: I think you simply have to defend your point of view there, but with arguments. Those are things where I don't want to allow anyone to make fools of us.

13:08Nina: Exactly. But that comes with time.

13:12Dominka: Should you always say yes to make the client happy, or is that harmful in the long run? Well, that's clear.

13:20Nina: Harmful in the long run, and it can really lead to you losing yourself in the whole process. You can't always say yes. Of course we can't always contradict either. So you have to find a balance in between.

13:43Dominka: You can always go: Yes, yes, yes, you're right, you're right. And then the email comes from our side: We don't feel like working together anymore.

13:52Nina: It's always: Yes, but.

13:54Dominka: We don't feel like saying yes anymore. That's it. I think that's a question that answers itself. The answer to the saying-yes question is: No. Yes and no. Good. How much willingness to compromise is healthy before you sacrifice your own standards or KPIs?

14:17Nina: Phew. I'd say the answers are …

14:22Dominka: I think you've already given them. We actually don't sacrifice standards and KPIs. We can agree that we … Well, standards and KPIs are the same thing for us. Never sacrifice, always expand.

14:39Nina: Exactly. That's why we're always open with the numbers, even when they're not as good as we want. Then we always say: Okay, we have to improve this and we want to keep improving it.

14:50Dominka: Good, next question. Can a client do more harm than good with constant demands?

14:59Nina: Maybe, when the team is unhappy with all the demands. When it's a bit too much, then I step in, as the buffer zone, like you said, and then simply find the best solution for both sides. Because you can't do something new every week, test, try out: a tactic, a new industry, whatever. Everything new needs a bit of time, and it's important that the client understands that too. Especially right at the beginning.

15:32Dominka: I always think it's nice when the client takes part. And when they really understand, when they get involved and when they really want to move the whole thing forward.

15:40Nina: But really from the beginning.

15:42Dominka: Exactly. I don't like it at all when the client is really just there, monitoring it in the background and not having much to say about it.

15:51Dominka: But years ago we actually didn't have project leadership. We didn't have a BDS, a Business Development Strategist. We had the BDR, and we actually had someone who just monitored the reports and sent out the invoice, but didn't deal with what we do today. That wasn't sustainable. It couldn't have worked like that, because first of all the BDR would have been under huge pressure from the client now and then, because they'd have made demands themselves without knowing at all what's even realistic. And I think that's dangerous. And that's why your position is something that's very important.

16:37Nina: And there are also things the BDR simply shouldn't be burdened with, that they shouldn't know. They don't need that information. And that's why it's always important that there's project leadership that can simply step in on conversations like that, because sometimes they're simply out of their depth.

16:57Dominka: Yes, but you know, the client took us on because they can't do it themselves. And because they maybe haven't done it or monitored it for years and actually don't even know the numbers, or simply have their own idea. And if they have the freedom to keep placing those ideas, then it gets hard.

17:16Nina: But you can really recognise right at the beginning whether that's going to happen or not.

17:21Dominka: Exactly. And that's where you have to say stop. Or, realistically, pull off the blinkers.

17:29Dominka: Okay. How do you react professionally when a client voices expectations that are technically and economically impossible?

17:36Nina: Simply be realistic.

17:41Dominka: Optional: turn off the camera.

17:47Nina: Maybe it's a bit easier when it happens by email, then you have a bit of time to think about what would be best.

17:55Dominka: That's a very good answer. And then you also know: Okay, this person is serious. They didn't just come up with that off the cuff, they really made an argument. It's also very important to put it in writing. And to say: Hey, now you have that on your server here for all time.

18:11Nina: You can always come back and read it again. In a meeting it's maybe a bit more difficult, I'd say, when it comes to situations like that. If you're also overwhelmed by the question, simply say: I'll take that with me. I'll ask my team, discuss it again internally, whether it's possible. Most of the time we find a solution for requests like that, something in between. But I'd say: simply don't react too fast and maybe not so explosively.

18:42Dominka: Exactly. Being professional here means not being impulsive and explosive. That's important.

18:46Nina: Simply stay calm and say: Okay. Think it over, too. And I think the client also appreciates it when you say: Okay, I need to think about it again, and I'll come back to you with an answer to this question. And even if it's a no, then they know: Okay, they at least considered it.

19:05Dominka: Yes, that's good. That's very good. Keep a cool head, don't go into the whole thing hot-headed, as if your life somehow depended on it now, but …

19:16Nina: You have to have a poker face.

Dominka: Exactly. That's very good.

19:20Dominka: Okay. Is it fair to show a client their limits, or do you then risk the account, or rather the client?

19:29Nina: I'd say if it gets to the point where we're even thinking about whether we lose someone or not and whether it's worth it, then that's already an answer for us. That it got to the point where we actually had to think about it and discuss it: Okay, does that make sense or not?

19:49Dominka: Okay, good. When does it make more sense to convince the client that they're not right, instead of carrying out their wish?

20:02Nina: I can't remember a situation right now where it was really like that. Do you have an example, maybe?

20:16Dominka: Yes, yes, a great many. And above all not in the segment where we've already got the project, but in the phase where we're still negotiating.

20:33Nina: In presales, yes, exactly. That's why, as project leadership and the whole team, we're maybe already in a better position, I'd say, because the team that does presales for us, or rather the whole sales process, is already working with the client and getting to know the client and already gives us a little feedback and a feeling for what it can look like.

21:00Dominka: Wow, Nina, but something just occurred to me. You had a situation like that recently. That was rock bottom.

21:10Nina: Yes, exactly.

21:12Dominka: With the meeting story. You had a situation where a dumping price was proposed that was really below any level.

21:25Nina: Yes, but that's a dangerous topic. It was like, you just can't believe it.

21:30Dominka: People just come out with that, and you can't believe it. And I think you reacted really well there too.

21:35Nina: Yes, with your help.

21:37Dominka: Yes, okay. Sure, first you laugh your head off at things like that, then you're also a bit angry, and then you just think: Wow, such kindergarten stuff.

21:48Nina: I found it so humiliating.

21:51Dominka: I found it unprofessional, humiliating. And then, from the other side, the reaction the way we delivered it: not going into it any deeper at all and simply saying that terminating the contract makes much more sense at this point. The best option. I think that speaks for itself. Anyone with enough brains in their head has understood it. If not, then it's better that we parted ways anyway.

22:16Nina: The good thing is, we didn't spend much time on it. I'd say we sorted it out in 15 minutes: laughed about the whole story, were a bit angry, and then not anymore.

22:27Dominka: That's that kind of situation, exactly that kind of thing.

22:33Nina: But that doesn't happen often, thank God.

22:38Dominka: Yes, but maybe I'd give our viewers a bit of context too. So, it was about a client who simply had an unrealistic expectation. They had worked with us for one very short month and somehow had the feeling that we now had to get 100 meetings out of 200 contacts all at once. I think anyone who has ever done cold calling knows that this isn't just unrealistic, but can't be done in any way at all by one person who works leads carefully.

23:16Nina: Where the meetings are also qualified in the end.

23:19Dominka: Qualified and good, but the quantity just wasn't at that level yet, because we were also only in the first month. But you have to be able to understand that first. And then came the counteroffer. The stupid thing is: You're not satisfied because you expected more quantity. But then you give us a counteroffer, even though you know exactly what our company policy is, what our pricing structure is and what we actually deliver philosophically and in our work. And then you come up with the idea that you want to pay per meeting. At a dumping price that isn't even worth mentioning. And that's already something where you can see: They didn't understand us at all from the very beginning.

24:04Nina: After such long negotiations, too.

24:08Dominka: As if we'd spoken in every language, but not in the one in which we understand each other. We didn't understand each other at all.

24:17Nina: Unbelievable. And then it's actually best to part ways.

24:22Dominka: Exactly. If someone doesn't listen and just wants to do their own thing and then even approaches you with things like that, then it's good. Okay, good.

24:34Dominka: Last question. I'm curious. Are there cases where not being right is actually an advantage for your own solution?

24:46Nina: Not being right as an advantage for your own solution?

24:51Dominka: Do you know what I mean by that?

24:54Nina: When you yourself …

24:58Dominka: When the situation actually comes from the client, and they're not right. So, they're actually not right, but this not being right is actually something that's good for us. A small example, hypothetical now: The client says: Yes, I think we should simply raise the hourly rate, then it'll get better. You think to yourself: Well, actually it wouldn't be bad at all, but I actually think it won't help, because it's just going like shit and the contact data isn't good and so on. But they want to increase the hours. It would actually be stupid to say: Nope, nope, we're not taking more money from you now. It would actually be an advantage for us. But you know they're not right, and you go along with it anyway, because it might be something in monetary terms.

26:03Nina: I wouldn't do it. Yes, we don't do that, because we're actually always very direct.

Dominka: I really wouldn't do it, but …

26:10Nina: And it actually also leads to dissatisfaction on our side, when we have a project like that which maybe isn't going so well, and then we also have an extra team and extra hours, and everyone's unhappy because it isn't working. And we make an effort, we discuss it a lot, maybe we prepare new things, and in the end it doesn't help.

26:37Dominka: Frustration, yes. But it's something that's tempting for a lot of people, and they accept it. Oh yes, more cash.

Nina: Let's do it.

Dominka: We don't make it better.

26:54Dominka: Good. Transparency and honesty, those always have to be part of it too. Nina, that's it from me.

27:01Nina: I'd say we have a good summary of the whole topic. The topic is always relevant, hopefully for our viewers too.

27:16Dominka: I think it's simply something you should talk about again and again, where you should also be aware again and again: You mustn't put up with everything.

27:25Nina: Yes, especially when you're new in sales.

27:27Dominka: Exactly. But you also mustn't arrogantly put yourself above everyone and say: I'm always right, the client, or you can't do it as well as I can. And also simply listen and be a bit tactical too. And especially when you have the feeling you want to react explosively: Stop. Better write an email later that's factual and makes it clear to everyone what was meant, instead of yelling at someone here.

28:05Nina: Then we have it forever.

28:07Dominka: Exactly, and then we also have proof. Okay, that's it. That was a new episode with Nina. Dear viewers and listeners, subscribe to our channel, comments are welcome, and Nina and I are reachable on LinkedIn, as followers and, well, whatchamacallit, connections. If you ask us, we probably won't turn you down. Okay, that's it. Ciao!

Nina: Bye!