Career Switchers in B2B Sales: How Anyone Can Succeed in Cold Calling & Outbound

2:56Dominka: Good, then let's get started. I have a few things I wanted to ask you, namely, Nina: your background in all of this?

3:04Nina: It's on my LinkedIn profile. Right: I studied German, like, I think, actually many people at OB2B, like you too. Besides German, Turkish, Turkish language and literature. So nothing to do with sales, and I never thought I would do something like this in my life, because I always wanted to be a teacher. And I did try that for a few years, at a language school, I think for 5 years. I worked with children, also with adults, and after 5 years I thought: Okay, I want to try something else. I think now is the right moment to learn something different. Because if I don't do it now, I'll stay in a school forever and be a teacher forever. And I wanted to do something different, because I thought: Okay, I can always come back to school if it doesn't work out with the other job. And actually you contacted me.

Dominka: I remember that.

4:10Nina: Yes, on LinkedIn. I just came to the interview and found it really interesting. I already knew a few people from my studies who had worked here for a long time, and I thought: Okay, they learned it. I can learn it too. And at the time I didn't really know what I should do.

4:33Dominka: You just said you could always go back and become a teacher. Would you still want to do that now? Me neither.

4:40Nina: No. I think this profession is beautiful, but I think other professions have positive sides, and teaching is a very particular profession, especially in Croatia. I think it isn't valued as much as it used to be. But I took the best things from that job and then expanded on them here. And our last topic, discipline, is one of those things, which I learned in my studies and also in my old job.

Dominka: Okay.

5:15Nina: Yes, and now I've been here for, I think, a bit over 3 years.

5:22Dominka: I'm always really glad too that I didn't carry on there, because I believe it's very dishonest when you do something you don't really stand behind.

Nina: Yes, 100 percent.

5:36Dominka: I have a friend who's a teacher, she works as a teacher and loves doing it. I think I wasn't bad at all, but still, I just didn't feel good in that job. I simply wanted to learn something new myself. I think it's the same as with you. And I'm also overjoyed that it's done by people who stand behind it 100 percent and really love being teachers.

6:04Nina: Yes, I also have friends who still do it, and they find it great. And then they say to me: Okay, I could never do something like what you do now, I mean sales. And then I tell them: If you think about it a bit more, teaching is also a bit sales-like, because you also have to sell yourself to people, give your best, leave an impression. Especially at a language school, so that people come back to you for the next semester and want to keep learning the language. But I think it's a nice job. It has good sides: the creativity, the discipline you learn there, talking to people. Those are actually the things I can now do in this job too, and that's why I'm glad I didn't leave all of it behind with teaching.

6:55Dominka: Yes. I've now been in sales for 9 years, and I always notice it. Even when I did something else in the meantime: somehow it's always sales that shapes everything. It really is like that. Maybe you can do something else for a while, but you'll always do it with that sales touch, I think. That's something, I think, especially with us career switchers. When you switch into something from the side, whether it's sales or whatever, then I think you also stay longer in a job like that. And then, I think, it's also something where you've simply found yourself after a while.

7:43Nina: Exactly. It's always a new challenge, you always learn something new, and I think it's quite dynamic. And that's what I find interesting about it.

7:53Dominka: Speaking of career switchers: I was at that course too, that sommelier course. And there were a lot of people there who actually had something to do with gastronomy, hotels and so on, or who had a winery of their own or something like that. I was almost one of the only ones who had nothing to do with it at all. There was also a doctor, who just switched over from the side, just like me. But we were among the most motivated, the people who really felt like doing it. And that's always a thing: when you switch into something from the side, you have to know there's actually a lot of motivation behind it.

Nina: True.

8:38Dominka: And then we come back to discipline again. But motivation: Hey, I'm going to give this a try somehow, and I can do it too.

8:45Nina: And a little fear is normal too. You said you shouldn't be afraid, but of course I was afraid.

8:51Dominka: Yes. That was a mosquito just now, another guest.

8:55Dominka: Okay. So would you say sales can be learned?

Nina: Yes.

Dominka: How did you manage it?

9:00Nina: With a good onboarding. I think that's very, very important for people who have never done this: to have a good and longer onboarding. I'd say you're still learning something new all the time, but I think the first month is really the important one in this whole job. You have to find your way, you have to learn what you're actually selling. At the start we learned everything about OB2B, later it was other projects. But I think here the onboarding really helped. The colleagues who had been through it too, their experience. Maybe they had studied the same thing and also had to learn sales first. That helped me. And of course the first calls, even though that was terrible for me at the start. I was really scared. But over time being on the phone just becomes completely normal, and I didn't find it, how can I put it, as terrible as at the start anymore. I found it like a little horror for me, that first call, but it didn't have to be like that. It was all in my head.

10:23Dominka: I think the good thing is simply, especially with us at the start: nobody tells you: Hey, you really screwed that up.

Nina: No.

Dominka: But rather: Hey, okay, alright, here and there …

10:38Nina: Every call gets easier and, of course, better.

10:41Dominka: Exactly. And I also think that after a while you notice: Hey, I actually already have a lot of experience from my life that I can bring into all of this.

Nina: That's true.

Dominka: And then it gets easier too, I think. And those are above all soft skills that may have come from your previous job, right?

11:00Nina: Yes, I'd say so too. Simply understanding people, listening, you learn that very well as a teacher, I'd say. Understanding people better, the whole motivation behind it. Discipline is very important, I think we all learned that in our studies. With German studies it was a bit special too, because it wasn't always easy to study German. You had to be disciplined to pass some subjects, and simply stay patient. I'd say that's important too. So just as a teacher is patient with their students and has patience until they learn something new and can use it again, in this case with the language: in the same way you have to be patient here until you get to a first meeting or to a first success, or until you're finally happy with the product of your work. I'd say those are the most important ones, and creativity too. Sometimes you just have to be creative in the calls to make the best of the call.

12:14Dominka: Yes. I think it's also very important not to put yourself down with things like: Hey, wow, I just did that totally badly, I can't fix that, that's somehow something I won't manage. If you do that right away, you might as well quit, I think. But the good thing is, you maybe also get some motivation from outside. There's surely a learning curve that's similar for everyone, but I'd say there are still differences. It also depends on the person, and sometimes, I think, the learning curve is also tied to a bit of luck. I think if you were really lucky and already booked a meeting in your first or second week, then you got that real boost. And then maybe you have a lot more motivation, the learning curve feels much steeper than when it really takes you a very long time to somehow get to a success. But this is also important to say: You mustn't always take a won deal or a booked meeting or a successful meeting as the point where you somehow got better. Because sometimes, and this is a bit mean now, sometimes it was just luck, right?

13:29Nina: Of course, yes. But you always need a bit of luck, I think, in this job.

13:34Dominka: But in any case it's something that gives you another push, right? I have to say, though: Very good salespeople at our company actually didn't start out by being super successful straight away and winning great meetings right off the bat. I think a very important factor in this learning curve is to really fall flat on your face once. But not in a way that you lose your motivation completely, rather that you see the other perspective again. An example: A colleague of ours is a super gifted person for sales, I'd say. She's very systematic, articulate, understands topics really well. But her connection with that client of ours back then simply wasn't good. And even though you think: Yes okay, it somehow fits. But if the client on the other side still keeps finding something to complain about, then that's another one of those things: Okay, what's coming from outside now is maybe not what I expected. And that's also something you can really learn a lot from. That's really falling flat on your face, but maybe not deservedly. But still, situations like that help too, when actually everything fits and you still get bad feedback.

15:07Nina: Yes, you also have to learn how to fail. I actually learned that quickly, because that was the hardest thing for me. I used to be the one who taught people things. And now I'm in this job where I know almost nothing … I don't know anything about the topic, I don't know the job, I don't know what I can do now. And there I learned really quickly: Okay, this just comes with it, I have to adapt. Failures are completely normal here, and nobody says anything bad or mean to you about them, because that's simply everyday life for us in sales. You just keep going, and like you said, you learn something new from these failures and keep motivating yourself for the next steps.

15:51Dominka: Exactly. So I always say too: Especially with things like that, it's always the team that makes the difference. Yes okay, maybe it didn't go well just now. But it's really always important that people have understanding for it. Even if you didn't deliver to the partner, the client you were supposed to deliver something to, what they hoped for or expected. That can happen now and then. Then it's really very, very important that you simply have a team that stands behind you: Hey, okay, maybe we didn't do it optimally, or we gave it our best. Next time we know we shouldn't do it like that. Or maybe we know: Hey, next time we'll make sure that we don't land such clients in the first place. That's also kind of …

16:46Nina: A result.

16:47Dominka: Exactly. So people should know: It's not always your fault when things don't go well. It's only on you when you really sabotage yourself or doubt yourself. Then it gets hard, I think.

Nina: True.

17:02Dominka: Has it happened to you that you doubted yourself for a really long time? Or did you have the chance for it to become objectively clear very quickly that it wasn't just your fault?

17:13Nina: At the start I sabotaged myself, I think, but what actually helped me: I had been at OB2B for maybe a month back then, and we had a joint meeting where everyone told their story of how they actually ended up in sales. And that really helped me: hearing the different stories and that my colleagues had been through something similar. One person also came from teaching. Another person used to work at a bank. And a third person was a dental assistant. I think stories like that helped me: Okay, how I feel right now is completely normal, and it simply comes with time. And I think the support from colleagues and the understanding for people who are just starting out in sales were really the most important thing for me.

18:17Dominka: I think we're actually about 99 percent career switchers here. I don't know if we had one or 2 colleagues who had really done sales before they started here. That's actually a good thing. And I'd say now, if we ask what it even takes to end up in sales: It will always be assertiveness. You have to bring that with you. But it's not something that's learned in sales per se. You can learn it, I think, but you can also simply bring it with you. If you don't want to do that, if you can't assert yourself, then sales isn't for you at all, I think, right?

19:11Nina: No. But I think we also have colleagues who maybe don't like that so much in their personal lives. Maybe they're not so loud, but they like the phone as a way to present themselves as a different person and maybe try out the things they don't like doing so much in everyday life. And I think that's great too. It means the person has it in them, but they need a little push to move the whole thing forward.

19:42Dominka: That's another thing we've talked about before: introverted and extroverted people. By now it's my view that a lot of people here are introverts by definition, but in sales you really don't notice it at all. I see myself as an extrovert, and I think everyone who knows me will say so too. I sometimes listen to people on the phone and think: You're not an introvert, nobody who's introverted talks like that. But in private they actually are different.

20:22Nina: Yes, I find that really interesting too. And it's really an advantage for people who think they maybe can't do sales because they're introverted.

20:33Dominka: Exactly. But you also have to say: Whether you're introverted or not, assertiveness is actually an inner thing. You don't let people trample on what you stand for. And that's actually the attitude that, I think, everyone then has: Okay, I have a project, I think the product is good, I think the service is good. I'm not going to let an objection talk me into believing it's not something that's good for them.

Nina: I find that exciting too.

21:07Dominka: Furthermore, there's one more thing I find very, very important, and that's empathy, which is always part of it too. Whoever doesn't have empathy, I think, can't fake it either.

21:22Nina: No, I think empathy can't be learned. You have it in you. I think it's also very important, and it's actually valued in many professions. But especially in sales: On the phone it's maybe not so visible who is empathetic and who isn't. But in meetings with our clients or in conversations with companies that may want to become a client of ours, it's very, very important to show empathy. And simply to show that we also have an ear for people and their needs, and that with us not everything is simply black and white.

22:04Dominka: You know what else I find important? When we talk about empathy, it's not just something where you think: Ah yes, okay, I'm sorry, you're so nice and so on. That's not really it. For me, empathy is also a human trait of really knowing: This matters to the other side, but you don't notice that it matters. And through what I've now learned from you, I want to show you in my own way, and for me that's empathy too, that it's actually something that should do you good. That's the empathy you need in sales. Not just simply listening to someone and saying: Yes, okay, you're right, maybe this isn't for you. That's not empathy as you actually know it from everyday life, where you'd say you want to help someone feel better.

23:06Nina: Then you also lose your staying power. So there has to be a balance between these 2 traits, I think.

23:15Dominka: Empathy would be: Oh, you're not doing well, you want to throw yourself off the bridge? Well, go ahead then. That's not empathy. No, empathy is actually: Hey, you shouldn't jump off the bridge, because there's a great ice cream parlour right next to it, and we'll go get some ice cream first, and then think about whether that's a good idea or not.

23:37Nina: Buy some swimming trunks again and go for a swim.

23:40Dominka: Exactly, exactly. There are solutions for everything. Franjo can't believe we just used that as an example. Yes, Franjo, you're not the only one with weird ideas.

23:52Dominka: I've prepared a little game. Game time here, namely: pro and con for career switchers in sales. I'll name a few traits, and you tell me whether it's a pro or a con, and then we can discuss a bit whether it's more something that's good for sales or not. So, first trait: teaching experience. Phew. Oh, right? But I'd say pro too, because you had so many people in front of you, so many different people. Especially if you worked with adults and with children. That kind of combination.

24:30Nina: I'd say it's of course not the most important thing when you get into sales, but it's always a pro.

24:36Dominka: Definitely. So if there are any teachers out there who are fed up with their job and are wondering what they could do: Teachers are really good at sales. Because, I think, especially with children you have to negotiate a lot, and later unfortunately with adults too. Some of them have stayed childish too. Or, and that's also an advantage, if you've stayed a child at heart, not too childish. I still remember my time: You have to, I don't know, explain grammar somehow, and very often people don't understand things like that right away. And then you have to find creative ways of getting something across to someone.

25:17Nina: So that everyone understands it and it's not so complicated. And negotiating with people, that's true for teachers too. You always had to find a balance, you always had to find a compromise, especially with children, I'd say. And I know one of our colleagues also had an episode about it, and the topic is really interesting.

25:38Dominka: Yes. And above all paraphrasing too. That's absolutely a teacher thing, paraphrasing. And in sales, if you can say the same thing in different ways, then that's totally an advantage, right?

Nina: That's true.

25:55Dominka: Okay, good. No business training: pro or con?

26:03Nina: I'd say it's not decisive whether you have it. So, in between. A pro if you have it, but I'd say it's not a con. Maybe it could be a con if a person doesn't really want to learn anything new and expects to be really good in a new job right away. But I'd say, in between, yes.

26:27Dominka: Yes, I think it can only be a con if you have experience from another time … Okay, good. Here's another really good example: We have a client who has been our client for years now. He completely rejected cold calling as a way of acquiring new customers. He thought it could never in his life work for him. And now? Well, you just have to try it. For some it does work after all.

27:04Dominka: Okay. Impatience.

27:07Nina: Con.

Dominka: Con?

27:09Nina: Yes. I'd say you have to be patient, because nothing ever comes that fast in sales. Sometimes you get to a result quickly, but I think it's easier for the person if they have a bit of patience.

27:27Dominka: Yes, in general I'd say that too. You have to be patient, actually always. But still, you know, from the other side I'm thinking now: If you're someone who bites and somehow wants to get somewhere really fast: It can motivate.

27:42Nina: The person gets motivated by this impatience, but …

27:51Dominka: Maybe it can be healthy sometimes, but in the long run it's probably something that totally destroys.

27:56Nina: I think with new projects it may be good if the person is a bit impatient and can hardly wait to get to a first meeting or until the client signs. But in the long run …

28:15Dominka: In general, patience is always a pro.

28:17Dominka: Okay, good. Perfectionism.

28:23Nina: I'd say it's also somehow in between. Maybe with the whole story about impatience just now: if a person is also a perfectionist on top of that, it can become your downfall. It can quickly get chaotic. And I think for that person it's maybe a bit quicker to simply become a salesperson, because the person can hardly wait to get to a first deal.

28:51Dominka: Would you say you're a perfectionist?

28:56Nina: In some things, but not in general, because I can live with a mistake. Not everything has to be perfect. I'd rather say I'm disciplined.

29:07Dominka: Yes. So perfectionism is a clear disadvantage here for me. Because I associate it with losing a lot of time on things that are really unimportant. Like tidying up a text you've somehow written that nobody will actually read except you at some point. Or, I don't know, researching things for a very long time that then don't bring anything later. So it's always good to just go into a conversation spontaneously. Simply unprepared sometimes. I'm more improvisation than perfectionist.

29:56Nina: Yes. I think that helps.

29:58Dominka: That's okay too. Although I have the feeling that a lot of people think I'm a perfectionist, but I'm not at all. Do you think I'm a perfectionist?

30:07Nina: Now that I'm sitting in the same room with you, I think you manage really well with improvisation. And actually, with so much improvisation, with so many conversations, you've also become a perfectionist in your job. That just comes with it, after so many years.

30:25Dominka: You can see that I'm a chaotic person, and you don't want to say it openly now? Thank you, Nina, you did that very nicely.

30:32Dominka: Previous sales experience. That's almost the same thing, I think.

30:39Nina: Neither pro nor con.

30:47Dominka: Good. Tech affinity.

30:51Nina: Yes, for a person who maybe isn't so technically gifted, it gets a bit harder. But I think here you also have to be motivated and ready to learn something new. So I think for anyone who can use Microsoft or google something, it already gets a bit easier. And if the person isn't totally averse to all the new tools. You can learn everything, but I think you do need to be a bit technically gifted. The work gets easier then.

31:23Dominka: Otherwise it gets hard, really. But I'd say we haven't had anyone in the company who's still here who was incredibly ungifted.

31:34Nina: No, really not. Everyone finds their way. I think today, with ChatGPT, Google, YouTube, you can find everything. And I'd say the tools we use are also very intuitive.

31:50Dominka: Yes. Absolutely. You do need an affinity for it.

31:58Dominka: And last thing: fear of or shyness about rejection?

32:05Nina: Yes, I think we've already talked about that a bit. I'd also say rather a con. But I didn't even know it could be a problem at all when I started at OB2B. Later you learn that it's normal.

32:28Dominka: I think a lot of people started here who were very afraid of rejection. But the most important thing you really have to tell someone at the start is: It's not personal. Just don't take it personally. And when it happens, you'll probably take it personally. But then remember again: Don't take it personally. It has nothing to do with you as a person. And afterwards go home, watch a film, go get some ice cream, jump off the bridge. Okay, rejection: yes, super nice. When a yes does come, you're all the happier.

33:18Nina: Yes, that's true. You have to try to know that it's completely normal, and even after 10 or 15 no's there comes a yes. And at the end of the day, that's what matters most.

33:33Dominka: Exactly. Good, I'd say we're done with our show today, or rather with our episode. I'd say we can draw a very clear conclusion, and that is: Career switchers in sales are truly very welcome. So if you look at us, the two of us, or the whole company too, I'd say: OB2B, nothing but career switchers. Career switchers are, I'd say, optimal for sales.

33:59Nina: I think Franjo agrees too. Yes, he says yes.

34:02Dominka: We got a thumbs up. Good. Thumbs up for you too, Nina. Thank you very much for being here again.

Nina: Thank you. It was fun.

Dominka: Yes, I was glad you were here again and that you enjoyed it. A little call-out to our viewers and listeners: You can find Nina on LinkedIn, feel free to add her. She also has exciting posts every week. Otherwise you can subscribe to our channel, there's a subscribe button. There's a comment box below: If you liked something or didn't like something, feel free to write it below. There's a like button too. You can share it if you want. And you can also find me on LinkedIn, and we also have a website where you can see us again. And this is the 32nd episode. Whoever hasn't watched the other 31 episodes yet, hey …

34:53Nina: They've missed something.

Dominka: They have a weekend ahead of them with really exciting episodes. Exactly. Okay, that's it. Thank you very much. Bye.