Excel Slows Your Pipeline: How to Set Up CRM & Lead Lists Right

2:43Dominka: Oh yes, they are. The topic we've prepared today is very important for the start of a project: lead lists, the CRM. Let's go. The most important thing when starting a project is, of course, having something to work with.

3:11Ivan: Yes, for that we first have to talk with our clients, with our partners: look concretely at their goals and expectations, discuss the whole thing and see who we'll contact in the end. You might think there's not much to it, you just get a list and that's it. For me it was sometimes the case that I spent a whole day just getting the spreadsheet in order. On top of that comes the check whether the companies are a good fit or not. That's really a lot of work.

3:50Dominka: The good thing nowadays is that you can do a lot through automation. But what I think is very hard to achieve through automation is understanding what it's all about. Or rather, sitting down and saying: Okay, let's define what we want to do for you, where we want to attack or where we should test first.

4:17Ivan: Automation is great, but first you also have to feed it in order to be able to automate something.

4:24Dominka: In a client briefing like that, what's the most important thing for you to find out?

4:28Ivan: The most important thing: I always like to ask the client about his existing top customers, who he has there, and about the criteria he gives me in advance, for example the ICPs, meaning what the ideal customer profile is. Of course, anyone can work that out from their customers. But I always like to get a concrete example of one top customer and analyze it in a bit more detail. Because that also gives you new insights into who else you could add as similar, who fits the company, and the client too, be it position, industry and so on.

5:09Dominka: Does it help you more if he first tells you everything about the company itself, background information on how it started, its history, its philosophy? Or does it help you more if he directly tells you a concrete example, a case study or anything that has already been done in sales?

5:34Ivan: The case study, definitely. The vision, the mission, I can find that out about the company myself in the tools. We have tools we use to get that kind of information. But a client project directly: how the sale came about with them, what worked there, with the objections for example. That can help me a lot. And there it's important to me to let the client tell me more about it, because that also brings questions to mind that I could ask later. How exactly did the sale come about here?

6:09Dominka: But what about clients who want to bring a new product to market and don't really have much experience with it yet? Maybe they've already used the product with an existing customer, it's being implemented with one or two people, or they use it themselves and know that it works. How do you approach that? What might be a tip for people outside who want to do the prospecting themselves? They have no money for an external partner, they have no money for another employee, but they know: I somehow have to reach my customers. What can you say as an expert: This is the strategy you should follow if you want to approach the right customer completely independently, on your own, and don't have a huge budget?

7:06Ivan: There are many options. But first I always like to put myself in the shoes of the potential target person, the potential contact, and simply think: What would be important for me to hear here? What would excite me about the new product? Another way: Sometimes there's also the competition, which you can research. How they approached a customer, who they targeted, you can find that out very easily, for example from the reference customers the competition has.

7:42Dominka: Then you might take a reference customer from a competitor and look: Okay, that's my ICP. Maybe I can sharpen it a bit more by taking those that have a smaller number of employees. Maybe that's my segmentation.

8:01Ivan: Exactly. If we discuss it like that as a strategy: When it's a new product, you have to collect as much information as possible and then, in the end, simply test.

8:17Dominka: But what's the concrete information you should collect if you're now building a list for yourself?

8:22Ivan: Well, the industry for example, of the companies that the product …

8:26Dominka: Okay, I need to know that the product I'm marketing isn't suitable for a hair salon, but rather for a car mechanic.

Ivan: Exactly.

8:39Dominka: Okay, so first define the industry. Where is my product or my service even …

8:50Ivan: Exactly. If we have a product, we're not going to call service providers. Just like you said: If we sell car parts, we don't go to the hairdresser.

9:08Ivan: After the industry, company size is pretty important. I always like to use software companies as an example. If they sell their developers, a whole team of software developers, no matter whether front end or back end, then they surely won't call IT service providers to sell them their team. Of course, that can be one aspect of the strategy if you're looking for partners. But you don't get concrete development projects from the quasi-competition; we have to get in touch with someone who develops software. For that you search with various keywords for what kind of software it is, if it's a specific niche, be it for construction or for aerospace. Then you also have to look at company size and, in the end, the location, whether it's the DACH region. If the DACH region is exhausted, for example, you also go outside the DACH region. There are many characteristics and criteria you can use to find similar companies. But only the ones that also had complete information on their profile.

10:30Ivan: Because it often happens that some profiles are filled in wrong, the description for example, I'm sure you've noticed that too. With some it says they develop software, and then on LinkedIn, for example, they're listed under the industry furniture.

10:50Dominka: Okay, those are just the downsides of online tools where you can enter yourself what you do or don't do. That's a kind of human error. But by researching the website you can definitely find out more and make sure that it's something that fits us.

11:11Ivan: You actually only need 10 seconds for that. On your very first visit to the website, you can tell whether you're in the right place or not. The human hand really has to be involved to check that. We come back to the beginning: Automation is top, it makes the work easier, but the human hand still has to be involved.

11:32Dominka: How far do you go when researching companies' revenue? Is it relevant too?

11:37Ivan: Yes, it definitely can be. If the product or service you're selling is somewhat more expensive, we're not going to take a company that has a smaller annual revenue. It's an investment you have to plan for when you buy something new. And if the cost is higher than the annual revenue, then it's a very, very bad qualification, I'd say, to call them.

12:04Dominka: Portals. There are also portals where you can sign up, when it's about a niche or something very specific like components and things like that. How often do you have clients who say: We don't find our potential customers via LinkedIn at all, or via a conventional source like simply googling, but we find our customers because they maybe sign up on a franchise portal? We had products like that here now and then too, right?

12:38Ivan: Yes, various ones. With those you actually have to go through lots of different channels to find the right approach. For example, I just had a project in the construction industry where we wanted to look for site foremen (Polierer). To be honest, that was the first time I'd ever dealt with the job of a Polierer. How am I supposed to find him on LinkedIn if I don't even know what he does?

Dominka: Exactly.

13:04Ivan: So I simply did some targeted research, in Dealfront for example, because they've divided that up quite well for the German market. Just search for Polierer there and see which companies they work in. To make the list more specific, we then searched it again by other filters, such as company size, headquarters, revenue, number of employees and technologies they might use. That can also be very helpful.

13:31Dominka: If you then have a client who maybe doesn't have the term ideal customer profile all that familiar or written down in his sales structure: What should everyone actually think about when they first create their ideal customer? Of course, there's no ideal customer profile that's always 100 percent right. But if you were to say now: Please, everyone who's listening, pay attention that you meet these criteria.

14:13Ivan: The criteria are quite simple. You actually put yourself in the shoes of the specific ICP to find out which department he's sitting in and what seniority level he has. It can't be someone in training that we call to talk about a purchase or a sale, because he has no decision-making power. Hence the seniority level. And then actually influencers too, so let me explain that: It can sometimes happen that we've defined the ICP we want to reach, but in some companies there's no way to reach these people directly. Then we can also define potential influencers through whom we then reach the decision-makers.

15:05Dominka: So by influencer you don't mean someone who sells lip gloss on Instagram, but actually a person in the company who can have influence on the decision-maker because they have the concrete need to use the tool or the service?

15:22Ivan: So an influencer is someone who would use our solution. He's the one who needs it. He sees the problems, the pain points for example, but he doesn't have the decision-making power. That's why he then goes to his manager, or ideally we get to that person too, so we can talk with him about it.

15:42Dominka: I can also say: Very often it really is the case that we have to get in precisely through such influencers, because the decision-maker only becomes reachable once he's had a nudge from someone inside his company that he really needs this. But if the decision-makers aren't involved, then unfortunately the decision is also very slow, or rather you can't count on it closing quickly. But for defining the target group this is just as important: Even if you've already defined the decision-maker as the ideal customer, you mustn't forget that other hierarchy levels are also very relevant and make a big difference in prospecting. Above all, they really make the decision easier for the decision-maker, and you should never exclude them. Very often you imagine: Wow, I only want to talk to the decision-maker, I only want to discuss something relevant with the decision-maker. It's very often the case that they don't even know what they need.

Ivan: Exactly.

16:52Dominka: And the person who then really uses it, who sits at the table and will steer the whole thing later, that won't be the company's CEO, right? He might release the budget, because he hasn't released a budget for something like this for a department yet. But now and then it's simply the case that we should go around and mustn't exclude these people when pursuing …

Ivan: Right, those paths …

Dominka: … when pursuing.

17:20Ivan: … who we go after. We know, it's often said, also in the automotive industry, about the bigger ones, meaning corporations in Germany: You rarely get in anywhere if you don't know anyone there. By now, we can refute that. You get in very easily, also through the influencers, because that way you get to know someone.

17:40Dominka: Okay. How did that happen in the concrete example? I'm not really interested in how you pulled it off, but in how it was predefined at all when preparing the lead lists, when preparing the CRM. Because that's the biggest problem, I think. Or can't you predefine that at all?

18:04Ivan: You can predefine the contacts, definitely, to see which person we need to reach. But only in the conversation can you see which path you have to take. Nowadays it's very easy to see who the Head of Marketing at BMW or Mercedes is, for example. That's information that's easy to find. But getting to the person, that really comes down to the BDR's skills. Because that's not so easy.

18:33Dominka: Okay, that's simply the diligence that goes with it, and the motivation, which mustn't be missing, to keep digging, even if you have an ideal customer profile and a good list. I know I want to get in there, I just have to find a different angle now.

18:50Ivan: Right, you have to get through. You also have to prepare the right materials. A decision-maker we want to present the product or service to certainly doesn't want to get hundreds of kilobytes or megabytes of files as attachments in his emails. Instead, you prepare concretely what it's about and place the right information.

19:19Dominka: Besides defining the goals and defining the ideal customers, or the list of potential customers, it's always very important to have KPIs defined as well. What do you understand by that? And how often are these KPIs exceeded or not?

19:48Ivan: KPIs simply help us track the success rate of the project. But when we notice that some KPIs are currently lower than, say, over the last three months, they also help us see where the project might be having problems right now. For example, we measure the reach rate of the contacts and their interest, meaning how many of them find it interesting or not. If we now notice after three months that interest among the decision-makers has dropped or is only half as high, then we realize: Okay, we're probably at the wrong ICP here, it's not interesting for them at the moment, or we're in the wrong industry. Then we take another, new one that's similar and try that way to push the whole thing a bit higher.

20:50Dominka: Can you even set right at the start of the project what a KPI should be?

20:58Ivan: You can define the ones you want to track and set standards for what the numbers should be. But in the first two weeks you generally won't hit these numbers anyway, to be honest. The contacts first have to be opened up. You also have to give the whole thing some time to reach the goals and, in the end, to exceed them too.

21:31Dominka: Okay. Do you prefer to redefine the KPIs after a while, or do you actually always keep them in the same segment and you're more the one who says: Okay, if you don't exceed them now, then the project is definitely not successful, and I'm simply not allowed to change anything about it?

21:53Ivan: No, never. You always have to keep tweaking. Because if it doesn't work, then, as I said, simply find new methods, new markets, new contacts, new ICPs, so that the whole thing moves forward.

22:09Dominka: Okay. And how often do clients come with their own ideas and say: Hey, this is what we'd like to achieve?

Ivan: Often, actually.

22:17Dominka: And how often does it then actually work?

22:21Ivan: I'd say: fifty-fifty.

Dominka: Really?

22:24Ivan: I don't want to say that it doesn't work, because the clients, our partners, are experts in their field. Most of them know which markets, which industries, which niches they want to go after, because they've been working with their product, with their services, for a while. They have the knowledge, and on the other side we have the expertise. Of course, when we notice that the first approach done the client's way isn't working, we always say: Okay, we see, that was maybe your key approach, the direction you want to move in. But after two, say three months, we noticed that it isn't working the way we want. For example, we're below the standards we want to hit. Let's change something, try something new. For example, a meeting was once booked, and we noticed: Okay, it was booked with a different contact, also from a different department within the company. Okay, then let's try going for those other contacts. Not just blindly pursuing the ones we were told are the right ones.

23:47Dominka: Simply change the strategy when you notice yourself that the KPIs aren't being hit, but were realistic.

Ivan: Could be, yes.

23:59Dominka: Okay. But if you set KPIs yourself and say, okay, that works, and it's been running very similarly for one, two, three, four, five, six months now: Is it then also time to restructure it and sharpen the whole thing upward a bit? To say: Hey, if we were at 5 percent now, let's somehow hit 7 percent next month, or 7 percent next quarter?

24:26Ivan: Always. Those are also small goals you can set yourself. Okay, so far we've had this many meetings, let's do even more next month.

24:35Dominka: Good. Lead search, data sources. What are your suggestions for where best to find data and how to maybe sharpen or enrich it further?

24:49Ivan: There are many sources, be it LinkedIn Sales Navigator, as a very, very large worldwide database to explore and get a first picture. There are other ways too, for example Dealfront, when we go more into a niche. We also have the option of trade fairs. It may be that some products or services we sell would be a good fit for certain trade fairs, or our client, our partner, was at the trade fair. Then you can also find the contacts very easily online. Always boost the whole thing with AI. The AI tools are our friends, they can help us. But I always advise: Do a double check after the AI check too, because in the end the AI gives us what we give it. We get the results of what we fed it. You still have to go through it by hand, personally, to be completely sure.

25:59Dominka: So good prompting, we all know that already, that's the most important thing. But if you're talking about databases that are public or even freely available, then first of all, I'd say, it's simply …

Ivan: Looking around.

26:16Dominka: Simply looking around yourself. Yellow Pages (Gelbe Seiten) or something like that.

Ivan: Yellow Pages.

Dominka: Commercial register (Handelsregister).

Ivan: Always.

Dominka: LinkedIn itself.

26:25Ivan: The commercial register, that's what I wanted to say, it's actually very interesting, because through it you can also find their activities, their line of business for example. Those are all keywords we can use later in the refined search.

26:39Dominka: Yes. But hand on heart: Free tools take up a lot of time. You can find a lot through your own research, but if we did that, we'd of course spend a huge amount of time just finding contacts and pulling out phone numbers, websites and so on. That's why, thank God, there are tools someone has put a lot of work into, which unfortunately aren't free, or fortunately aren't free, because then there's also someone behind them who maintains them and makes sure these tools work well.

Ivan: Updated.

27:23Dominka: Exactly, updated. And first of all we're definitely talking about LinkedIn Sales Navigator, where you can find a lot of contacts and build lists for a fee. And anyone who's into social selling can also do their own prospecting through it. Anyone who likes it, who can do it and who wants to should really use this tool. We use it, of course, to build our lists for our clients. Another tool you already mentioned is Dealfront, which we also use, because it's simply a huge database with customers from the DACH region, with enriched data records, where you can really download the whole thing into the CRM with one click and save it. And of course that helps enormously to automate this tedious task of doing your own research. Of course the whole thing also costs something, but in the end it pays off. Especially if you need a large customer base because you're supposed to keep delivering something new for the client.

28:31Ivan: The prices you pay for these tools: It really pays off to pay that kind of amount, for example for Dealfront. Especially this work, when we look up companies and contacts, then merge the whole thing into one spreadsheet and check whether every row fits: That can actually take one, two or three days in Excel.

Dominka: If you do it by hand, yes.

29:03Ivan: Import into Pipedrive: We have the company, if not, it gets created. Within one or two seconds you have a contact in there.

29:11Dominka: And I think that's also a great USP towards the client, to say: Hey, you can really make this tedious work easier. We use a tool like this, you can use it yourself too. We're the experts behind it, in how to put it to use very quickly in cold calling. And that's already something where you can say: That helps a lot.

29:35Ivan: You notice that with our clients too. You can see who used to do this work and knows how much effort goes into it. And having automations like that really, really saves a lot of time.

29:51Dominka: With lead lists it's surely always interesting to do a segmentation or a prioritization too: which ones should be called first and which you maybe save for later. How do you approach that? Do you tell clients more: Let's call the most interesting ones first? Or do we start with the ones that aren't so interesting, to warm up? What's your suggestion there?

30:15Ivan: Well, first the BDR should get into it a bit, to get into the topic, so that we don't immediately call some top targets, the A-leads. Sorry.

Dominka: ABC, whatever.

Ivan: Yes, ABC.

30:31Dominka: All equally important. Although you have to say: They're not all equally important. Of course every customer, once they become a customer, is equally important. But if we've really already defined a target group, we'd actually like to say: Hey, I'd really, really like to have that one, because I know it fits us really well. With the B-list I don't know exactly, there I do think they fit us quite well. With the C-list I'm not sure: They could fit us, but they don't have to, right?

31:00Ivan: Exactly, that's one way to split it, for example. Then we go first for the ones that fit us. We go after them to hold the interest right away. That's the easiest, and through that we can also get some information in the conversations with them that can be useful to us later with the others, for example with the B-leads. With those, we're not sure which information would land best, which objection for example. But after the conversations with the A-leads, we can learn some pain points that we can highlight to them later.

31:34Dominka: Okay, you can see it that way too. I actually also find that very, very brave, wanting to prove yourself right away with the ones you'd most like to have in the pipeline. With us it was also very often the case that the client said: Let's start with the C-leads first. I'm calling them C-leads now, although we don't always define them that way. Where they then say: If you want to warm up with the topic first, then maybe do it with someone where you can't do much damage. You could see it that way too, right? I'd even say it almost depends on the project itself.

Ivan: Exactly, I'd say so too.

32:18Dominka: Because you can also say: Hey, we feel totally ready and confident to approach it this way. I'm going into the A-list now and booking 10 meetings there with the best customers they can imagine. Or you can say: Maybe I'm not quite 100 percent sure yet that I'll pull this off that well for our partner. I'll feel my way in a bit with the B- or C-leads, to see what the pain point might even be there or how I can get in, to gain a bit more confidence for the calls with the really big or really good customers. I think both approaches are important. But it's good to simply define: There are A, B and C customers. And if a C-customer comes in, that doesn't mean it's a worse customer. It just means we didn't recognize them as an A-customer right at the start, but they become an A-customer later. That's actually what I mean when I talk about prioritization. The prioritization is really just the first picture of the list.

33:37Ivan: Exactly, especially as it was agreed at the start of the project.

33:42Dominka: Because I can also tell you: It's like that with us too. I have projects here that have been running for two years now, where I'd never have thought we'd acquire them ourselves. But they came to us as clients from a segment that we don't actually go after actively. And now, after working with them for a longer time, you think: That's actually a really …

Ivan: Dream team.

34:11Dominka: … good … Yes, that's actually a really good target group to do some prospecting ourselves, because it apparently works quite well with them. Specifically, I'm talking about design here. We never actively go after it. But we actually could.

34:27Ivan: Very easily. We could actually go after any segment or any industry, as long as we define properly in the preparation, in the setup, who we'd approach there and how.

34:42Dominka: What I also find interesting: how you maintain the quality of the leads. Or rather, how you keep a project active for a long time without saying: We've gone through everything now, and that's it.

35:03Ivan: Through testing. For example, I currently have a project running where we spent most of last year, actually the whole year, looking for other ICPs. Other industries …

Dominka: … other redefinitions.

35:20Ivan: Exactly, the ideal customer. That was a complete redefinition. Of course it didn't come out of nowhere: The client also had an upgrade of the project, something new was added. Okay, then you see: These new tools, these new interfaces could also become interesting for this industry, for example. It's also possible that we do a complete turnaround, where we've completely changed the contacts. We tested many industries and then looked at it on a two-month basis: Okay, out of this many contacts we had this much success in percent. If you convert that, you see that compared with the others, where we were before, it's even better. Okay, then we see: We have a new industry that we've now been working in for five, six months this year, and it's actually working.

36:16Dominka: Yes, I like that. That's really quality behind it too, simply saying: Okay, it's not going so well here, or it's been going too well here for too long.

36:27Ivan: It doesn't have to be going badly right now. For example, we had a case where we exhausted our entire base in the DACH region. A project that's been running for three years already. You just don't have that many companies for three years. Then you have to find other ways to approach them.

36:50Dominka: Very important question: How do you make sure the data validation has been done on the client side before you hand the whole thing over to the BDR who does the prospecting? What does the client have to deliver from their side?

37:05Ivan: The most important thing here, in my opinion: They should go through the list once more and look for existing partners. Because there's a risk of calling a partner without us knowing that it's a partner of our client, and trying to acquire them. That person can always think: Okay, but I'm already your customer. Why are you calling me? What kind of customer care do you have? That's why there's this step beforehand, where our partners also go through the lists by hand, so manually, not automated, to avoid calling existing partners. Nobody wants that.

37:43Dominka: But nowadays you can actually do that quite well through automation.

Ivan: Well …

37:47Dominka: For those who use it. We can't always do it directly for someone. Now and then, when we use the same CRM base, we can do it. But if the client doesn't allow that for data protection reasons, then it's definitely something they should go through by hand themselves. Definitely very important. And also knowing: We're working on this now, please don't work on the same lead group.

38:09Ivan: That too, in case they already have their own team. The clients can maybe also see faster than us which companies on the list don't fit us. Then they say: Okay, we were already working on those, please don't approach them anymore, for this and that reason. That can also help us with the prospecting. Every piece of information we get there.

38:32Dominka: When setting up the CRM and the pipeline, we'd of course prefer to use the same CRM as our partner, not to have two separate ones.

38:44Ivan: That makes no sense. Just imagine pulling the data out of one CRM at the end of the project, only to upload it into the other one again. That takes time too.

38:54Dominka: Yes, but unfortunately that's sometimes the case, you have to say that very clearly: Sometimes it can't be unlocked for data protection reasons. We prefer working in the same one, so there's no overlap and so it's really transparent and directly visible.

Ivan: Yes, for various reasons.

Dominka: If it's not possible …

39:15Ivan: … then we have the option, for example, of setting up Pipedrive at the client's. We also recommend Pipedrive if you don't have a CRM, because after years of use we've found that Pipedrive is actually very well suited to our activities. Of course, other CRMs have this option too, but in Pipedrive, for example, we work concretely out of deals, to which we can attach the companies and the contacts ourselves, so that all the information about what was discussed with whom is in one place.

39:49Dominka: I think it's also a matter of habit. It's something you can set up very easily. Unfortunately, it's still sometimes the case that we have to work with clients out of a database. But that's doable too. It's not impossible, but with today's technology it doesn't have to be.

40:08Ivan: You can get by with Excel too. But we know how it goes in prospecting with us too. Sometimes you ask questions like: You're still working with Excel?

40:19Dominka: Why is a CRM relevant for you as a project lead?

40:24Ivan: I can find the information I need very quickly.

40:28Dominka: You need that to be able to plan your strategy?

Ivan: Right.

Dominka: Okay. How quickly can you tell from an Excel file what's working well?

40:40Ivan: If I have to filter lots and lots of rows and work with formulas, for example to get the most relevant data out of Excel: Really, it can be complicated. In the CRM we simply have insights tools where all the data is collected. I just have to create the right report once and with that I can already track the KPIs. Very easily.

41:07Dominka: Yes. The good thing is also: Even if it's Excel, we have an external reporting tool that can help us a lot to do an analysis, so you can change the strategy very quickly because you notice it's not working right now. Of course, you can also notice very quickly, subjectively, when something isn't working. But when the numbers really show everyone that it's going well, so-so or badly, then that's really an indicator to try to change the strategy right away and see: Hey, we can do something better here.

41:41Ivan: The numbers don't lie. Subjectively, it can always be, maybe it's down to the market at the moment or something like that. But if the numbers stay like that after a certain time, okay, then you have to change something.

41:52Dominka: I'd like to give a summary of the things we talked about today. First of all, it's very important to sit down with the client and define: What's the target group, or rather, what's the ideal customer profile? During prospecting you'll always deviate from it a bit and try to find something new. But that's a must: good exchange. Second, really having a competent, quickly accessible, clean lead source, so that you can make this work easier and don't spend too much time finding the contacts and importing them into the pipeline.

42:36Ivan: And for the BDR himself, who'll approach the contacts: so that everything is clean and concrete and he knows what he'll talk about on the phone.

42:46Dominka: Exactly, that's also the importing into the pipeline, or rather into the CRM, which is actually meant later as the main tool for the BDR. And then really defining directly: What are the KPIs, and where do I map them? So that as a strategist I can see: What is my project doing? Where were the leads well received? Where can my BDR do something better? Where is he doing it fantastically? Then we can praise him. Where and how should he carry on? And then plan accordingly. And those are, I think, the three most important things, right?

43:25Ivan: In the end, that leads to success.

43:28Dominka: We have a game, Kim made it for us … And the game is called …

43:38Ivan: Dial or Don't?

Dominka: Exactly.

43:41Dominka: "Wählen oder nicht" (German for "dial or not"), if I may translate it into German. The concept: You describe a lead or a setup scenario. The guest has to decide, you're the guest: We'd call there, or: not worth it, doesn't fit. So I give you a scenario, and you tell me whether you, as a competent person who knows something about this product, the service and the partner, would call there. Or whether you'd rather avoid it and say: Hey, that probably wasn't worth my time at all. I could actually have seen that in the data analysis already, but unfortunately that wasn't possible, and before the call I did some more research and realized: I don't need to call there.

44:27Ivan: Yes, now I want to see whether I've just been babbling the whole time or whether I actually know something.

44:31Dominka: Exactly. Okay, listen up. CEO of a 120-person IT service provider in Munich. Very specific. No direct phone number, but an active LinkedIn profile.

44:48Ivan: Dial.

Dominka: How would you call him if he has no direct phone number?

44:54Ivan: There are other ways, for example writing to him on LinkedIn, sending a connection request and then getting in touch with him via LinkedIn after a few days. It doesn't always have to be phone calls.

45:07Dominka: That's the fastest way to get feedback.

45:11Ivan: True, but sometimes we're in a situation where we can't reach them. Hence other ways.

45:16Dominka: But you didn't listen carefully. It says "direct phone number". It doesn't have to be a direct phone number of his.

Ivan: Ah, then I didn't listen.

45:26Dominka: So if we don't have a direct phone number, then an indirect one first. That's what I'd do first: Random Extensions. So that means: You do call, the switchboard or somewhere, and try to get put through.

Ivan: Via the influencers we mentioned.

45:46Dominka: Exactly. Next: Head of Marketing, SaaS company, 80 employees. Visited your landing page three times.

45:55Ivan: Totally. I'd do that too, because there's obviously intent. If they were directly on our website and looked at something specific, then go straight in with what they looked at.

46:10Dominka: Exactly, I'd do it that way too. Okay, next: Junior Sales Manager, consulting firm, 10 employees, no website.

46:18Ivan: Don't. We can't find any information. Seniority level: It's a junior, he has no decision-making power. Move on.

46:28Dominka: Maybe he's just job hunting, right? Then I'll call. Then I'll call him and ask what he's got. Okay: corporation with 10,000+ employees. Target industry fits, but the client has expressed no interest in large companies. So your client.

46:50Ivan: Don't, actually. That's not among the client's preferred customers. It may be that he can't take on orders from corporations. That's why rather …

47:03Dominka: Too big, probably. Okay. Good: CTO, mechanical engineering company, 150 employees, already said no a year ago.

Ivan: Since he said no …

Dominka: A year ago.

47:20Ivan: But a year ago. I'd still maybe go for it.

47:27Dominka: I'd go for it. Great. I'd also say: You said no a year ago …

47:35Ivan: You never know. Maybe he lost a partner he had.

Dominka: That's a year. A year is so long.

Ivan: Could be.

47:46Dominka: Especially in business life, I'd say. Good. Okay. Yes, that's it.

Ivan: That's it already?

Dominka: That's actually it already.

Ivan: What did I win?

47:56Dominka: You've won a trip: back to your workplace.

Ivan: By train, right?

48:03Dominka: No, simply on foot.

Ivan: Oh no.

48:08Dominka: Exactly. That's the best prize you can get: going to work, isn't it?

Ivan: I'm happy about it.

48:16Dominka: Good. Ivan, that was our 16th episode.

Ivan: 16 already?

48:22Dominka: That was our 16th episode, the second with you in our OB2B Podcast. We're very happy that our viewers tune in now and then and hopefully pick up some good tips from us on cold calling and new customer acquisition. There's another new episode on Monday, feel free to tune in. We hope you were able to take away some useful tips. Your pipeline will already look much better from tomorrow. For more tips on how to make life easier and make cold calling simple, feel free to keep listening. Thanks at this point. We're OB2B, dear viewers, listeners and subscribers. Subscribe to us if you haven't subscribed yet. Feel free to write to us on LinkedIn, connect with us, and we'll stay in touch.

49:23Dominka: Yes, Ivan, thank you.

Ivan: You too, it was nice.