Objection Handling 2: "No Interest" and "No Need"

4:52Dominka: Very briefly, an introduction once more: We are a business development agency that deals with lead generation, lead qualification and lead closing, I can put it that way too. Today we're back on the topic of objection handling, and we've brought in two very classic objections that we'd like to dissect a bit, describe in more detail and demystify. Nice word, demystify.

5:22Franjo: Because when you hear "no need" or "no interest", some people, some salespeople, tend to just give up, so to speak. But the beautiful thing behind it, the magic behind it is that it's precisely through objections like these, through "no need" and "no interest", that you can get good feedback and also good potential partners. Hence: demystify.

5:52Dominka: That's what we're doing today, and here's how: I've been given a plan here, and it's not bad.

Franjo: That's a crib sheet.

6:02Dominka: A little crib sheet, I need it so the whole thing doesn't take three hours, because the two of us could manage that.

Franjo: No problem.

6:10Dominka: So. No need: meaning and interpretation. No interest: distinction and causes. That's the first segment. We'll put the whole thing into context to understand it better: What's actually behind these objections? Second segment: the right way to deal with these objections, strategies and techniques on the phone.

Franjo: Good.

6:33Dominka: Or in the meeting too, if you … But actually someone who said "no interest" straight away and hung up, or who somehow won't be talked round, has no business being in a meeting, right? You have to change their mind before that. So, on the phone.

Franjo: Exactly, exactly.

6:52Dominka: And then a bit of experience and tips, but we'll manage all that. There's also a game again, a bit of game time, and then we'll say goodbye to our dear viewers and listeners. So.

7:08Franjo: First segment, right?

Dominka: The first segment is: no need, meaning and interpretation.

7:15Franjo: Good. I've thought about this a lot. I have a lot of free time, which is also good. So. The question I asked myself was: What's the difference between "no need" and "no interest"? At first glance it sounds the same. You're saying the same principle, but it's not really the same once you draw the line a bit.

7:45Franjo: I'd say that "no need" has a reason. Either the price doesn't fit, they already have it, they're working on it, or something like that doesn't fit, let's say, into their company systems or their company policy. So there's an argument for why it doesn't fit.

8:10Dominka: So you'd say that "no need" is really more of an objection and "no interest" more of a pretext?

Franjo: Exactly. You put that nicely.

8:19Dominka: Well, I've been in this job for a long time, too.

Franjo: Yes, that's why I've been able to learn a lot from you.

Dominka: From you too.

Franjo: Oh no.

Dominka: Thank you at this point. Thanks. Keep going.

8:35Dominka: What I find very exciting is the distinction between the emotional reaction and the rational rejection. Where does the emotional reaction lie, and what is a rational rejection with these objections or pretexts?

8:57Franjo: With "no interest" you can really hear that it's an emotional reaction. If, for example, the person doesn't like cold calls and I call him, then I completely understand that he's angry, just hangs up and says: "Please don't call me again." I completely understand that. With "no need" you can get into a conversation faster, where the other side can also briefly describe why the whole thing wouldn't work for them, or might. But precisely because of that, you can find out the pain points through the conversation, which in the end is also our job, isn't it?

9:44Dominka: And maybe from the side of the person who receives the "no interest" or "no need" as an objection or pretext: How am I allowed to react to it emotionally, or how can you react to it emotionally? At the beginning, when you hear it for the first time, it's probably strong. It hits you. But over time?

10:10Franjo: Over time you have to toughen up against it. Because if you react strongly and emotionally every time, you won't be a good salesperson. You have to be able to think rationally and also function well in stressful situations like that, so that you can ask good questions afterwards, which is also a way to resolve the whole thing. So my reaction would be the following: When I hear "no need" or "no interest", I first have to, let's say, relax in that situation, so that I can place my next step, meaning the question I'm going to ask, well. With the right tone and of course also with the right choice of words.

10:59Franjo: If the other side has used, let's say, particular or specific words, I have to be able to use those words too, so that I show: Okay, I listened to you. So, empathy.

11:11Dominka: Yes. We always talk about separating such reactions from yourself as a person, about somehow letting it bounce off. But maybe "bounce off" isn't the right word, because if it bounces off you, then it's just gone, and you don't want anything more to do with it, right?

11:32Franjo: Exactly, exactly. You have to be able to digest it.

Dominka: Okay, better word.

11:37Franjo: Better word. If you can digest things like that, and you have to practise that too, then it's also easier to practise the right reaction to this situation.

11:52Dominka: So, step one …

Franjo: Digest.

Dominka: Swallow it.

Franjo: And digest.

Dominka: Then digest, and then …

12:00Franjo: Afterwards, spit it out. Exactly, exactly. Out with it.

Dominka: A bit gross.

12:05Franjo: When you put it like that, yes, a bit gross. But yes, that's the whole principle.

12:11Dominka: What are typical situations in which "no need" comes up?

12:18Franjo: What I experienced most recently, for example, is that a contact person already has long-standing partners who do the same thing we do, or rather the same thing I'm calling about for the projects. And then they say: "Yes, that's why there's no need." So they told me, with arguments, why there's currently no need. Which I accept, but I don't give up. That means, even though I know that the chance of a meeting or a potential partnership is small, I know: If I can get a foot in the door, I already have an opportunity to do something in the future. Hence: persistence.

13:06Dominka: That's very important. So the "no need" objection really is an objection that must not simply be accepted. Especially if you're someone who does sales for your own company or is outsourced to do it. That's someone who defends the concept of the company's product or service because they also believe it's something good. Otherwise we wouldn't even take the job, right?

Franjo: Right.

13:32Dominka: That's why you always have to keep that in the back of your mind. You have to be motivated. The motivation and simply the will, that helps you to really want to handle an objection and also to get creative, right?

13:51Franjo: Yes, I completely agree with you. Because if you're all fired up about the project, it's much easier to find good arguments. And if you're even in a tight spot, you can, through creativity, as you put it so nicely, find a good way, at least for data mining.

14:16Franjo: That also makes sense.

Dominka: That makes total sense. We make total sense, the two of us, yes. What we're saying here is …

Franjo: Please take note.

Dominka: … very sensible.

14:27Franjo: For everyone listening: please take note and write it down. Thank you. Just use it on your next cold calls and then write in the comments how it all worked. Thank you.

14:38Dominka: Yes, motivated, but always.

Franjo: Always motivated.

Dominka: Now pay attention.

Franjo: I'm paying attention.

14:46Dominka: The role of timing and tone. … Hello?

Franjo: Yes, especially important.

Dominka: Hello?

Franjo: Very especially important.

Dominka: Hello?

Franjo: Yes, I'm listening to you.

14:59Dominka: Yes, what exactly do you say about it? So the importance of the voice, the speed, the choice of words, you already mentioned that, arguments, target group, industry.

15:11Franjo: You always have to be able to adapt to the contact person. Because if you ask the right question with the right tone and the right choice of words, it's easier to get the reaction you want. Meaning the other person opens up and can talk about, let's say, problems, bad experiences and so on. If, for example, I come in with the wrong tone and start, what was I going to say, shouting at the other person, then I get nothing out of it. But that's of course the worst thing I can do. Relaxed, calm and then even a bit confused. That can also be a good strategy for success, if you say in a confused tone: "I couldn't understand your arguments, could you please explain that again in more detail?" Then I can get the right pain points out quite well.

16:12Dominka: And in terms of timing: It's not only the individual timing of the person you want to reach. Of course that's the most important thing. If you've got the info that he's not in today, then of course you don't call ten times to reach him after all. Or if he's in meetings all the time, then you're not someone who makes phone calls during the meeting either. You go by this person.

16:36Dominka: That's micro timing, I'd say. So placing yourself: Okay, then he's reachable, then he's in the office, then I know when I can reach him. But there's also timing on a macro level, if I may call it that. Global. We don't live in a capsule, we're not sealed off from the world. You can find out a lot around the whole topic. If you're perhaps calling an industry where you know very well they're not ready for things like this at the moment, because maybe there are huge trade fairs right now.

Franjo: True.

17:17Dominka: Or maybe you simply know from the news, globally, or from LinkedIn or from somewhere you look in a bit, that the market there is completely saturated right now, that the market is in a crisis. Those are things you can find out very easily. There are things you can find out all around, and then you have to know clearly: Okay, if he says "no need" now, then I know he means it. But I called anyway and introduced myself, and I'm a really nice guy. And I'll call again in six months if things go well. With my tone, with my manner, with my friendly attitude, I've already opened the door for myself.

18:04Franjo: True. And I completely agree that precisely in situations like that, where you can very easily find out important information, you can also show understanding towards the contact person. And they really appreciate it if I'm not pushy, but really human, which is what matters most in the sales industry.

18:26Dominka: And that's the approach you should take with objections like these above all, when you get them in situations like that. But it doesn't mean that if you already know there's probably nothing going on there, you shouldn't call, just with a different sentiment.

18:43Franjo: Exactly. The sentiment would then be: I'm getting a foot in the door. I'm showing who we are, what the company does, what we're planning in general. And if it doesn't work out at the moment, okay. Maybe in the future they'll have the resources, the time, the will to develop it further.

19:04Dominka: What's always a bit awkward: when you call a company and don't know that it has gone insolvent.

Franjo: I've experienced that several times.

19:11Dominka: Yes, that's a bit awkward. You could actually find that out, but maybe you don't take that step right away. Sometimes you forget to do it, right?

19:19Franjo: I had a case like that at the beginning of this year, exactly. I called the company in the middle of last year, very, very nice contact person. He said: "Yes, unfortunately we're insolvent. Call us again in six months, then we'll see whether we can do something." I thought to myself: Ugh, calling again now, how much sense does that make? Does it make any sense at all? I got the same contact person again, and he said: "Yes, we've found new investors, and we're ready for new projects."

Dominka: See?

Franjo: It worked.

Dominka: Timing.

Franjo: Timing is very important.

19:59Dominka: I'll move on to the third part. We've already talked about it, we've already thrown in a few tips. But what's a common mistake that happens, or that you've come across? Giving up too early, overthinking, being impatient?

20:22Franjo: I'd say the first reaction: that you immediately switch off emotionally and want to end the call as quickly as possible. That's the biggest mistake you can make. Because at that moment you've simply thrown away all the possibilities. Despite the, let's say, great stress you experience when someone says "no need", especially when the other person is angry, you have to find the strength to ask the right question. I'll give an example now: "If you already have it or want to implement it, can you explain in more detail why there's no need?" And then you at least show commitment, for data mining, and also, let's say, respect towards the other person. Because I want to understand why there's no need or no interest. Not just accept it flatly like that.

21:21Dominka: What helps when you really know: Okay, I've now very often had the objection "no need", "no interest". Maybe I'm also very often getting the same or a similar reason. Does it help to try something new, new scripts, to switch?

21:46Franjo: Of course. But then you really have to bring in the whole team.

Dominka: Teamwork.

21:52Franjo: Exactly. The project manager, the partner you're working for, the Quality Manager and also the colleagues who work with me, simply ask: "Have you had experience in this industry and with this problem? What did you do then?" And simply try the options: other scripts, let's say, a different choice of words or a different approach, or in the end even a completely different industry, to get the best possible result for the project. So in situations like that, where you've really heard "no need" several times, it's teamwork, so that the project can keep going. Because one person can't do it.

22:36Dominka: Do you sometimes manage, in a conversation like that where the interest is rejected straight away, to change the person's mind by coming in with a success story, maybe from a similar industry, and then pitching again with it?

22:55Franjo: I didn't manage it with a success story. But I once had a conversation, which was also a pretty good conversation, where the contact person said straight away: "No need, we already have that." Then I asked: "What exactly do you have?" He then explained that he'd made it himself, some kind of software. So I said: "Fine, but you know that our software can do the same thing and that we've already had several decades of experience." And then I heard a moment where he stood still and thought to himself: Really? How come? Then we got into a conversation. Then he told the whole story: why he'd done the whole thing that way, what was very annoying for him, what the pain points were, why the whole company had annoyed him and so on. And then I thought: Even though the other side already has a solution and showed no need and no interest right at the start of the conversation, we came to a good conclusion. So once again: the right questions, the right timing and of course also the right emotional reaction.

24:12Dominka: So you really caught him out?

Franjo: Exactly.

Dominka: Yes, that's good when that happens.

Franjo: I learned from the best.

24:21Dominka: I also always find, when you manage to really recognise in the conversation: Oh yes, we can actually help there. You've now said "no need", but with a question we still got to the why. Then maybe you take another look: Ah yes, look, for a company like that I actually do this. We actually have a case study from this story. I find that has always worked when you somehow slip that in and try to tell them: "Hey, we somehow managed to change their minds too." Or: "We're doing the same thing for a client like that" or "we've done the same thing".

25:00Franjo: Yes, that helps especially well if you already have experience in this area. Then you also show professionalism. As I said, you really have to have the right industry and already the right experience to have a case study like that. But if you have one, you can easily have deeper conversations and also set up better meetings. So a very, very good point.

25:30Dominka: One thing you really cultivate and that, I think, you always pass on as a tip to every man and of course every woman: keeping a clear mindset. And maybe also coming up with a few rituals for yourself. Is there anything you'd like to share again?

25:53Franjo: The only thing I'd say: I know how frustrating it is when you get cut off twenty times a day, hear "no need", "no interest" and so on. Taking that frustration with you, going to the gym and having the best possible gym session, that's for example one option I practise. But you mustn't allow what you hear in conversations to have an influence on you. That's the hard part. Because if you really hear "no need" 20, 30 times a day, you really lose the desire for the project, for …

26:38Dominka: … doing anything. But I think it's also your own fault if you hear that 20 times a day. That can't be right.

26:44Franjo: Among other things, too. Of course I exaggerated it a bit now, so to speak. But if you hear it several times, it can also be the salesperson's fault. Yes, that's true, I completely agree. But it's also your fault if you take it to heart and don't have a good way of digesting the whole thing in the end. So: If you do something to let out all the anger, all the frustration, so that next time you can do it again in a better mood, with full fire, I think that's a good strategy.

27:29Dominka: I'm the kind of person who, when there's been an objection or the interest wasn't there and I really had no proper reason, or the person still left me with the impression that they hadn't told me everything …

Franjo: There's something more, right?

27:54Dominka: … then I like to do some research again after an appointment like that or after a conversation. Who are these people? Maybe I missed something. I think that's not a bad ritual: not just calling again tomorrow, but maybe calming down first and seeing: Okay, no, I did everything right. All okay, everything fits. But if you find something out and see: Ah okay, maybe I can do something there after all. Maybe I'll send an email afterwards. Maybe I'll call again tomorrow anyway. Maybe I'll make sure that at the next appointment with them, if there is a next appointment, I have a new piece of information for them that could make them happy, because I found out something somewhere. You don't have to do it every time, but I think when you've got that feeling that there could be something more …

Franjo: Then you should do it.

28:46Dominka: Are you allowed to shout something …

Franjo: Yes, of course.

Dominka: … after them?

28:51Franjo: Not shout, but then you really have to watch your tone, depending on how the conversation ended. Then you can really achieve good success too. But I agree with you there: Sometimes you really have to follow your gut feeling.

29:11Dominka: Franjo, I have a game, it was prepared for us. Thank you, Kim, as always. The game is called: "Pitch the objection. Sell the no." The tables are turned. The guest has to sell the objection himself, as if it were a valuable product or a service. You have to sell "no interest" as if it were the best thing that can happen to a company. Well, sometimes it actually is.

Franjo: Sometimes it is, yes.

29:45Dominka: Why should you have no interest? What does it get you? What's the USP?

Franjo: All right.

29:51Dominka: Good. I'll give you two objections: "no need" or "no interest". Task: pitch the objection as a product or service within 30 seconds. Bonus points for buzzwords, exaggerated marketing, absurd features or benefits.

30:14Franjo: All right. You tell me when I can start.

Dominka: I'm saying now: no interest.

Franjo: Okay, and I can start.

30:20Dominka: And you have to pitch the objection to me now. I've chosen "no interest". Is that how it works? Good. I'm deciding that I need no interest. But I don't know why.

30:33Franjo: All right. The first question that of course has to be asked here is: How many annoying salespeople called you today? Surely a lot. And many of them said: "Yes, we have lots of good products, we have lots of good options." But nobody really showed empathy, nobody really showed, let's say, good research. They were just annoying. "I have the best possible solution for you."

31:02Dominka: I said yes to all of them. Now I've spent tens of thousands of euros on products I don't need.

Franjo: That was too early. You should have said "no interest".

Dominka: If only I'd known that sooner.

31:16Franjo: With "no interest" you can also switch off the most annoying salesperson, just cut them off. That works like a charm. Someone who has an incredibly good pitch: "No interest", and just hang up. Best combination here.

31:31Dominka: But what if I say "no interest" and he says: "But I still have a free …"

Franjo: Hang up.

Dominka: "… eraser here."

31:38Franjo: Best combination there is.

Dominka: Hang up straight away?

31:44Franjo: Exactly. Then the salesperson has no chance to add any further points.

31:51Dominka: But what if he calls back straight away?

31:52Franjo: If he calls again, once more: "Good day, no interest." Click, done.

Dominka: And if he calls again?

Franjo: No interest.

Dominka: As long as he calls …

32:01Franjo: As long as he calls, always the same thing. It's very simple, very clear: two words you can always use.

32:10Dominka: Oh, I see, I don't know whether I should use "no interest". Maybe then I'll miss out on something super great.

32:17Franjo: You see, that's the beauty of it. "No interest" also shows the quality of the salesperson. Even if he's annoying: If he's intelligent, he'll also show other ways of getting the right information across to you.

32:32Dominka: Yes, but I'm just unstable, so I can't tell what's good for me and what isn't good for me.

32:39Franjo: That shows the crème de la crème, as opposed to the boring salesperson. That's the difference. If you use "no interest" there, it automatically filters out which salespeople are the good ones and which are the bad ones.

Dominka: Okay. And so only the good one gets through to me.

Franjo: Exactly.

Dominka: If he stays persistent.

32:56Franjo: Exactly, and if he's intelligent, if he also uses other ways to give you the information. So "no interest" is not just the best brush-off, but also a filter for the future. Then you know: Only the one who understands that "no interest" doesn't mean no, but is a way to show other possibilities … then you also get the right solution.

33:19Dominka: Good. And what does a "no interest" like that cost?

Franjo: Nothing.

Dominka: Free?

Franjo: Free, free. Anyone can say "no interest". Thank you.

33:29Dominka: Very nice. Super. That's it. Not bad. Thank you. It was also a bit absurd.

Franjo: A bit philosophical.

Dominka: A bit Brecht, very Brecht-like.

Franjo: Yes, a bit epic. Brecht's theatre (Bertolt Brecht's "epic theatre"). And dramatic.

33:48Dominka: No interest, no need: similar, but not the same.

Franjo: Exactly.

33:54Dominka: Mindset is very important. Maybe always have a ritual for yourself after you've heard something bad and aren't happy with it: take another look, what can I do better? Don't take it to heart, but still think about it. Don't just let it bounce off, but rather digest it: swallow it and then get it out again.

Franjo: Exactly, now you've got it.

34:14Dominka: Very nice. That's it. That was our 15th episode, our second episode in the objections series. We'll keep going with it. I hope there are still a few more we can discuss nicely.

34:26Dominka: To the audience once more: Thanks for listening. Tune in again next Monday, then we'll have a new topic for you. Subscribe to our channel. You can find Franjo on LinkedIn, you can find me on LinkedIn. Follow us. And keep it up with the cold calling.

Franjo: And show interest.

34:50Dominka: And if you've never done cold calling, give it a try. And if you don't manage it, if it just doesn't work out for you …

Franjo: Just ask.

Dominka: There's us. Bye, Franjo. Thank you.

Franjo: Bye.