Objection Handling — Introduction

1:17Dominka: Why you? Because you actually deal with objections every day, right?

Franjo: Yes, and I'm actually glad that I get to, let's say, fight with a lot of objections every day, because objections are basically a very good thing.

1:35Dominka: Okay, a very quick introduction. Franjo, here with us you are …

1:42Franjo: … a BDR, and I've been here for two and a half years.

1:46Dominka: We're already heading into the third year, we're slowly getting there, right? Can you estimate how many objections you've handled in these almost three years?

2:00Franjo: I counted them: it would be roughly thousands and thousands and thousands.

2:08Dominka: Let's say you surely make, I'd say, 5,000 calls a year?

2:17Franjo: Yes, and of those 5,000 calls, let's say, surely 4,000 …

2:25Dominka: Or even 10,000, I'd say. How many do you make per day?

Franjo: 60 a day.

Dominka: 60? How many is that per month? 1,200?

2:34Franjo: No.

Dominka: But you do make 1,000?

Franjo: Yes, I do make 1,000.

Dominka: Times twelve months, 12,000 calls. Wow, that's quite something.

2:49Dominka: So statistically, you've surely handled 100 different objections by now. Then you can definitely talk about it.

2:59Franjo: What can I say? 100 different objections for sure, but you could say that these objections also fall into a few categories. We can of course get to that later.

Dominka: Yes, it would probably be good to categorize them a bit.

3:13Dominka: Exactly, that's definitely today's topic. We want to shed some light on what an objection is, what is similar to an objection, the so-called pretext, how you can handle them, what the most common objections are and how you can prepare yourself for them. And of course a tip on the side for those who are a bit afraid and maybe don't even dare to do cold calling because they're scared of objections.

3:49Franjo: You could say that, but that's exactly the beauty of it. When you deal with an objection for the first time, it's very stressful because you don't know: okay, what do I have to do now? He said something negative and I have to react. First of all, just relax. Because if you then listen to what the other person said, you can react to it well and actively.

4:22Dominka: Exactly. So I'd maybe start from the very beginning. That was a nice introduction. But let's say I've been here for eight years and for almost six years I haven't been doing …

Franjo: Give or take.

4:40Dominka: … any cold calling. I don't know what an objection is. Can you explain it a bit? What is an objection in the first place?

Franjo: Good question. I asked the Duden (the German dictionary) what an objection is.

Dominka: Okay, and? What does the good old Duden say?

4:58Franjo: The Duden says it's a reason, but a reason with an argument for why you don't want something. So it's backed up with arguments why you don't want it or don't want to talk about it right now. That's exactly the difference from a pretext, because with a pretext you don't need any reason for saying: no need or no interest. That's the big difference.

5:33Dominka: So if you invited me for a beer now and I said: "No thanks, I don't drink beer." Would that be an objection or a pretext?

5:49Franjo: Why don't you drink beer? That would be the first question.

Dominka: Ah, very good. Then I say: because it gives me headaches.

Franjo: Do you get headaches from every beer or from a certain kind of beer?

6:01Dominka: I don't know. I'd say from every beer. It's all the same anyway.

Franjo: No, it's not the same.

6:08Franjo: So now we have to find out which beer gives you headaches and which doesn't. That means we have to try it out. You know roughly what you drank, right?

Dominka: A lager, I'd say. It was light.

Franjo: It was light, okay. That means when we go for a beer, we have to try a dark one. Let's imagine that light beer gives you headaches. Then let's try a dark beer. And if that works, we know: dark beer is fine for you, light beer isn't.

6:44Dominka: So I can go for a beer. You actually just handled an objection, I'd say, right? Because I honestly said: beer gives me headaches.

6:57Franjo: But then the question is which one, because not every beer is the same beer.

Dominka: Very good. And not every kind of headache.

Franjo: That too.

7:13Dominka: And if we took that as a pretext now, what would that look like? You invite me for a beer again.

Franjo: Do you want to go for a beer?

Dominka: No.

Franjo: Why don't you want a beer?

Dominka: I don't like beer.

7:30Franjo: But which one? Dark beer, light beer?

Dominka: I don't like beer in general, I find it disgusting.

Franjo: You find it disgusting? Have you really tried every kind of beer?

Dominka: Yes, I've tried everything. Absolutely everything.

Franjo: Hm, somehow I don't believe that you've drunk every kind of beer.

Dominka: Are you somehow claiming that I'm lying?

Franjo: I don't want to claim that you're lying, but it doesn't sound plausible that you've tried all kinds of beer.

Dominka: Yes, okay, maybe I'm cheating a bit, but that's my business. I just don't like beer and that's it.

Franjo: Okay, that means you don't want to go for a beer with me now.

Dominka: No.

Franjo: Okay, I can respect that, I understand. But then say it honestly.

8:16Dominka: Okay, that means you weren't able to handle my pretext. That's actually not good, is it?

8:22Franjo: Not necessarily. Because situations like that can also lead to good feedback. But then I have to get to that feedback. If I had only said, "Okay, we don't have to", then I wouldn't have taken the important step, which is asking questions and finding out why this situation exists. Why you don't want to go for a beer with me.

8:48Dominka: But when you get to a contact where you really see, like with me now: I don't feel like going drinking with you. Then from my side I'd even say: with someone like that, I don't want to make an effort anymore. They're not even open to continuing the conversation. What do you do in that case? Do you just file them away and say, I'll never call there again? Or do you take time again, reflect and see whether you should call again after a while, with a different story or a different angle? What do you generally do?

9:33Franjo: I'm thinking a bit now, but thinking is also a good thing you can do there. Both would be an option. First take time to reflect: how did the script work, what was your attitude that day, were you more open to conversations or not, were your questions good or not? And once you've reflected on that, you might come to the conclusion: okay, maybe I was the problem. If you then call again in a few months, he surely won't remember who you were and what you talked about. You can simply start from scratch and maybe reach a different outcome. I had exactly this situation a few weeks ago, and I then organized a meeting.

Dominka: And he had actually given pretexts before?

Franjo: Yes, he said: "No need, we have no interest. You can call me again in a few months." That's how he put it. Okay, happy to do that. Then I read through the note, "no need", and thought: okay, let's try. Now we have an opportunity. New attitude, new and better script, and I'm a bit more experienced too. I thought my experience would play an important role here. Then I called, got him on the phone and organized a meeting.

Dominka: Great.

Franjo: That means: even though I got "no need" as an answer the first time, that doesn't mean the door is completely closed. I can call again in a few months, and maybe the situation will have changed. If not, I get feedback and call again in a few months. What matters is that you're really persistent and, of course, don't lose courage.

11:38Dominka: Okay, good. What are the most common objections you hear?

11:45Franjo: I'd say the general ones: no need, I have no interest.

11:52Dominka: Isn't that the same thing?

11:55Franjo: You could split hairs a bit there, but okay. Then: I have no time. Please don't call me again. Those are a special category. And depending on which project I'm calling for, every project adds something new. Project-based, you could define it that way too.

12:22Dominka: For you, what's the most important step to, first, recognize an objection as an objection at all and, second, be able to counter it?

12:36Franjo: Active listening.

Dominka: Okay, what does that mean? You let them talk, hang up, call back in ten days and take notes?

Franjo: Yes, of course. And then I sit down, cuddle up in my blanket and ask myself why I had to listen to all that. No, not that. Rather, I don't just hear, I understand what you told me. I want to understand the meaning, so that I can come up with a question that fits you. That means I can't ask something very specific if you gave me a general answer. Let's say "no need": then I can't ask something about software or digitalization. The point is that you respond to the other person with a question that fits what that person said. And not that I simply follow the script.

13:44Franjo: Because if you follow the script, you make a big mistake, because the script isn't something active. That's why you need what comes with experience as a cold caller, and the knowledge of the project, on every call.

14:14Dominka: So not hammering out the pitch, but having a dialogue.

Franjo: Exactly, that's the most important thing.

Dominka: How do you manage to have a dialogue when the other side is stubborn?

14:27Franjo: With the right questions you can manage it, even if the other side is stubborn. I can deliver a monologue, no problem at all. But the monologue leads nowhere, because I haven't taken the problems, the objections and also the emotions of the other person into account. What do I have then? Nothing. I only did my pitch, and the other person just heard it all, not actively, of course.

14:56Dominka: Yes, they're probably thinking: hey, I already said no.

14:59Franjo: Exactly, like with any other salesperson who just wants to hammer out the pitch and then make the next call. That's not the point. The point is to listen to the other person and ask a good, well-placed question, so that the other person notices: okay, he listened to me and really wants to learn something from me. I matter to him. That's the beauty of it when someone feels important on the phone.

15:28Dominka: Do you think backing off is also good objection handling? In the sense that you say: "Okay, thank you very much, maybe I'll send you an email or call you again after a while, let it sink in." And then you just leave them alone for a bit.

Franjo: That's a wonderful thing.

Dominka: And then you come back to them. Maybe in a few months, maybe in a few days. You chase them again, right? But in a way that they don't feel chased. And not attacked.

Franjo: Right. It's important that the person doesn't feel attacked.

16:03Franjo: Because that way we show empathy and also understanding for the other person. If they're in a meeting, for example, I can't have a 15-minute conversation now, because they have something more important at the moment. We can then arrange something else: that I call back later or next week, so the other person knows I'm showing understanding and empathy for their situation. That's something very important for objection handling. So, what can we say? Active listening and empathy. Then also asking the right question. With these three things you could basically resolve any objection without problems.

16:49Dominka: It's a bit like …

Franjo: Mathematics.

Dominka: Mathematics, or also a sneaky hunting strategy, right? I leave you alone for a bit, you get the feeling I'm more interested in you than you are in me, and then I come back in through the back door. Then the tables will turn, right?

17:15Franjo: When you put it like that, it sounds pretty sneaky, but …

Dominka: It's a hunt, after all.

17:25Dominka: You know, I recently saw a job posting on LinkedIn from a person I follow and find very interesting. This person also works in sales or marketing. They were looking for someone in sales who had to be a closer. And the job ad said: "We're not looking for someone who nurtures relationships, but someone who closes." And I think to myself: hm, isn't that actually the same thing? Especially with the method we're talking about right now. I don't want to make friends for life, but somehow you do have to win people over. Otherwise you won't close anyone, right?

18:21Franjo: I completely agree. All the sales people I've seen on Instagram, LinkedIn and also YouTube basically say the same thing: we have to build trust, and people buy from people they trust. If I'm a closer who doesn't build trust, I just call and hope the other person happens to need it right now. But if I'm a good salesman, I call the person, build trust and can then get to the deal without problems. And then I'm a closer too. I don't know who you're talking about, but with a contradiction like that they surely didn't do themselves any favors.

19:16Dominka: Yes, that's how I felt about it too. It makes little sense, actually none at all. I think a good closer closes when there's already some kind of relationship.

19:34Franjo: And an honest relationship at that, where you know what the situation is.

Dominka: A marital one? (In German, "ehrlich", honest, sounds close to "ehelich", marital.)

Franjo: An honest one.

19:43Dominka: So honest in the sense that what you discuss can actually be delivered later.

Franjo: Right.

Dominka: Because otherwise you'll have a huge problem later.

19:54Dominka: Franjo, what's your preferred technique in objection handling? How do you crush every objection?

20:10Franjo: Not every one, but most of them.

Dominka: Every good objection. You don't even want the bad ones?

Franjo: No, of course I take the bad ones too, work on them and take the feedback from them. What I generally try is to ask questions in a, let's say, positive way.

20:32Dominka: In a devious way, okay.

Franjo: No, of course not. A positive way.

Dominka: How so?

20:40Franjo: If I want to organize a meeting, for example, and I see that the other person isn't exactly the most open to a meeting, I ask a question like: "Would it be helpful for you if we discussed all this in a meeting?" Because they still have open questions they don't want to or can't ask me right now, because I'm only the salesperson. I'm not the expert on the product, but I am a professional salesperson. With a question like that, I often get an honest answer from the other person. And most of the time the answer is, of course: "Yes, a meeting would be helpful." Okay, when do we set up the meeting? That's how I can handle many objections well, with a positive question.

21:26Franjo: Or, for example, when someone says: "We have no budget." Let's imagine hypothetically that you live in a world where that's not the question, so you do have the budget. Would you take something like this? Would you want the meeting with us? If he says yes, I know: okay, we can find a way around the budget and organize the meeting. If he says no, there are other things I haven't found out yet that are blocking the whole sales process.

22:01Dominka: Very nice. Have you ever done this: you talked to someone who threw out a few objections, you hung up and thought, this won't leave me alone, I'll call them right back and go over a few objections again? Along the lines of: "Mr. XY, you know what, this won't leave me alone. I have the feeling you didn't tell me the truth. I have the feeling you actually need this, but you're not even aware of it."

22:42Franjo: There were one, two, three situations where exactly that happened. I knew they needed the product, which I don't sell myself, but for which I organized meetings. And after the conversation I felt: okay, I have to call once more. But not right away. I give him about a week, so he can read through all the documents and think it all over. Then I called. After several calls, when I got the person on the phone again, because that's a process too, I noticed: okay, I have to be a bit more positive now, and now I can organize a meeting. And in the end I was able to organize the meeting, because I gave the other person time to evaluate everything, and because I was persistent and didn't want to let it go that easily. I knew it was important for them to have something like this. And of course our project partner, partner in crime, also told me: "Try it this way and that way, we did this and that, try pitching it like this, it will surely work." With that collaboration we then managed to organize the meeting.

24:07Dominka: Do you do that when dating too?

24:11Franjo: When dating, I'm more on my own. I don't ask my friends what I should do, I trust my gut feeling. If I can already talk openly with a person on a date and see, okay, this could be good, then I immediately ask about a coffee or a beer or going out for dinner. Because I don't want the lady to just walk away. I want to say: okay, you're interesting to me, and I'm happy to share my time with you.

24:50Dominka: But that's similar, isn't it?

Franjo: Yes, dating and sales are pretty similar, very similar in many aspects: building trust, building relationships, having good partners and taking care of them. Almost the same.

Dominka: And the hunt.

Franjo: And the hunt, of course.

25:10Dominka: Good, all right. As every time, our dear colleague has prepared a game for us.

Franjo: No, really?

Dominka: The topic is objection handling. I have my phone here, and I've been given a few prepared objections. The game is called Objection Speedrun.

Franjo: Speedrun. Okay then.

25:47Dominka: What's the task? I give out five objections, in 30 seconds. And the guest has to answer quickly, in one or two sentences.

Franjo: Good, doable.

Dominka: You're the guest, you know that, right? I'm the host here.

Franjo: Aha, okay. I can do this.

Dominka: Five objections, and we have 30 seconds in total. Kim is timing us now so I don't have to. Thanks, Kim. And off we go: "Too expensive."

26:36Franjo: If we lived in a world where budget wasn't an issue: would this be interesting for you?

Dominka: Okay, wonderful. "No time."

Franjo: No problem at all, I completely understand. We can set up another time so I can call when it suits you.

Dominka: "I can't transfer you."

Franjo: No problem at all, I understand, it's company policy. I'm happy to send you an email.

Dominka: "No interest."

Franjo: Are you saying that because you've had bad experiences with other partners?

Dominka: Oh, time's already up, but we have one more. One more: "No need."

27:16Franjo: Have you already implemented this solution, or do you think you have no further options to develop there?

Dominka: That was really … Did you prepare for this or what?

Franjo: Not for the last two, but I had prepared the first three.

27:31Dominka: Did you get them beforehand? No, right? But you knew they were coming?

Franjo: I generally knew what might come.

Dominka: Okay, good. But these are also the most common ones, right? You did well.

Franjo: Thank you, I'm working on it.

Dominka: I wouldn't even know what I'd do with "too expensive". I'd say: "Why are you so stingy?"

Franjo: Could actually work.

Dominka: Or with "no time": "What do you mean, no time? Hello, make time!"

28:05Franjo: But that's exactly why we have to show empathy, understanding for the other person. Short story: I have a project where I have to call people …

Dominka: Wow. You don't say.

Franjo: … and I had a very nice guy on the phone. He said: "Yes, it's interesting, very, very interesting, it fits perfectly too." But he had no time at the moment. No problem, then I'll call you again in two weeks. Called again in two weeks: how's it going now? "I'm in a meeting right now." Okay. Then he calls me: "I wanted to give you some quick feedback. I don't have time now, but we'll find a date." After about six calls, he told me: "I'll give you feedback next week, one hundred percent." Last Wednesday I got a call again: "This and that is your contact person, a colleague is working on it. I've told you everything, and thank you again for being so nice and so understandable."

Dominka: Understanding.

Franjo: Yes, exactly, understanding. I simply showed understanding there. No meeting yet, but good potential that will hopefully move forward this week.

29:38Dominka: I'd say we've generally defined what an objection is, how you can counter it and turn it to your advantage, and what the most common objections in calling are. Not that big a deal, I'd say. You can really counter them easily. You can also just listen to the speed tips you gave. Use them. But there are so many objections that are very specific. With us, there's a huge difference between industries and topics. I'd find it really helpful if we gave a few more best-practice tips in other episodes: what do I do in this situation? How do I approach this industry? What can I do differently? Do I have to discuss it with my colleagues or with the partner I'm doing this for?

30:48Dominka: What know-how does the other side bring that can help me? Because knowledge is actually what helps most in objection handling. I don't think you can handle an objection if you have no idea what you're promoting, right?

31:10Franjo: I'd add: knowledge is important. With understanding, empathy and active listening with the right questions, every objection can be handled.

31:24Dominka: Then I'm completely with you. Good, Franjo?

Franjo: Yes, Dominka?

Dominka: I'd say we're done with the topic.

31:33Franjo: I'd also say we're done. Until next time.

Dominka: Until next time. Take care. Bye.